Prayer of the Blessed Virgin

Marcia,

Here are some excerpts from the Catholic Catechism.

(the bolding is mine)

Click here for source

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

Pamela K and D28, thanks very much for the info and links!

This is especially disturbing:

Also, I see she is declared the Mediatrix.

 

Originally posted by Marcia:
Also, I see she is declared the Mediatrix.

Marcia, I would agree with you, for all practical intents and purposes. The only technicality I believe is lacking is the official declaration or pronouncement (Catholic term is escaping me at the moment) by the Pope stating the infallibility of this doctrine. However, I'm not 100% sure this has not taken place by now. Maybe Mike would know more.

 

Greetings

Jeremiah laments the Israelites making sacrifices to the queen of heaven (Jer 7:18; 44:17-19,25).

Mary was given this title by the Apostolic Constitution Defining the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, Pope Pius IX, Dec 8, 1854. Pope Pius XII, in 1954, verified this. Pope Paul VI, in Nov 1964 verified this. See: http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sunburst.htm.

In past times, the cult of Isis named Isis as the Queen of Heaven, the "principal of all the gods and goddesses." See: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/lucius-assa.html.

Bryce Self traces this legend back to Semiramis, wife of Nimrod and queen of Babylon. See: http://www.ldolphin.org/semir.html.

Worship God alone!
Lloyd

 

Pamela,

Its in the Catechism. Thats pretty much "the source" regarding authoritative Catholic doctrine.

Here it is again from the portion I posted,

Mike

 

Originally posted by D28guy:

Pamela,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Marcia, I would agree with you, for all practical intents and purposes. The only technicality I believe is lacking is the official declaration or pronouncement (Catholic term is escaping me at the moment) by the Pope stating the infallibility of this doctrine. However, I'm not 100% sure this has not taken place by now. Maybe Mike would know more."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its in the Catechism. Thats pretty much "the source" regarding authoritative Catholic doctrine.

Here it is again from the portion I posted,


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation

Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike


Hi Mike,

The term I was trying to think of before was "papal decree". The following website has information stating that the official decree regarding the doctrine of Mary as Mediatrix has not been made, although the site does not seem current, possibly from 2000. So, it may have taken place by now, but I have not been able to find out anywhere, even on the Vatican site as of yet. However, I agree with you 100% in that this is what Catholics believe, according to their catechism, and sadly, papal decree or no, that is what really matters in the end.

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Coredemptrix.html

 

I just found this thread, but speaking of the OP, I've asked this same basic question on other boards while actively involved in polite discussions with Catholics. Whenever I've asked, the discussion ends...immediately. The person I was talking to simply stops posting and I never get a response.

Sadly, I do not think that they have an answer for this. Hopefully it makes them think.
I pray that it does.

 

PamelaK,

I'm not really sure what the point would be regarding a "Papal Decree", when its already in the Catechism. I would think it would just be sort of an "exclamation point" or something. Like I said, the Catechism to Catholics is pretty much regarded as we regard the scriptures. It is "The Authoritative Truth" source for them.

To the Catholic, the "laity" are simply too unsophisticated and "simple minded" to really understand the deep things of God found in the scriptures. They need the high and lofty "Hieararchy" of super special "Holy" men to interpret it for them, and tell them what they must believe. And the way those Super Holy ones do that is by giving them the Catechism.

It is precisely the same thing as the Jehovahs Wittnesses and their Watchtower literature, the Mormons with their extrabiblical books, Mary Baker Eddy and her Christian Science literature, and Ellen Whites literature for 7 SDA.

I remember as a Catholic all through parochial school up to High School, we never cracked open the scriptures. In religion class we studied the Catechism...not the scriptures.

So if the Catechism says that Mary is the "...Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.", then that settles it. There is no more discussion, no more questions. Catechism say it...so IT...IS...SO.

I dont know the point of a Papal decree.

God bless,

Mike

 

Official pronouncements from the holy see: papal bulls--an interesting coincidence--any connection to "sacred cows" in not readily apparent.

The worship of the queen of heaven, mother of god, goes back to the days of Nimrod and his wife and her son. Is it biblical? See Exodus, Ch. 20--The Commandments.

Satan is proficient at that which is pseudo--it is no wonder, Satan, himself is become an angel of light.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Originally posted by D28guy:

I'm not really sure what the point would be regarding a "Papal Decree", when its already in the Catechism. I would think it would just be sort of an "exclamation point" or something. Like I said, the Catechism to Catholics is pretty much regarded as we regard the scriptures. It is "The Authoritative Truth" source for them.

To the Catholic, the "laity" are simply too unsophisticated and "simple minded" to really understand the deep things of God found in the scriptures. They need the high and lofty "Hieararchy" of super special "Holy" men to interpret it for them, and tell them what they must believe. And the way those Super Holy ones do that is by giving them the Catechism.

It is precisely the same thing as the Jehovahs Wittnesses and their Watchtower literature, the Mormons with their extrabiblical books, Mary Baker Eddy and her Christian Science literature, and Ellen Whites literature for 7 SDA.

I remember as a Catholic all through parochial school up to High School, we never cracked open the scriptures. In religion class we studied the Catechism...not the scriptures.

So if the Catechism says that Mary is the "...Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.", then that settles it. There is no more discussion, no more questions. Catechism say it...so IT...IS...SO.

I dont know the point of a Papal decree.


Hi again Mike,
Good to talk with a former Catholic such as myself.
As I said before, it seems to be just a technicality, but from what I've picked up from my reading over the years, and again, this is just my understanding, the papal bull or decree officially states that a doctrine is "infallible", while the Catechism is a list of doctrines, beliefs, and traditions. And, as I said above, papal decree or no, this (doctrine of Mediatrix) is sadly what Catholics believe and that is what really matters, so in essence, you are correct.

 

Hence this "Quote"...
THE REQUESTS OF OUR LADY OF THE ROSARY OF FATIMA


THE DAILY ROSARY FOR PEACE:
“Pray the Rosary every day in honor of Our Lady of the Rosary to obtain peace in the world . . . for she alone can save it.” (Our Lady—July 13, 1917)

Or...
DEVOTION TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY:
"Jesus wishes to establish devotion to my Immaculate Heart in the world. I promise salvation to those who embrace it." (June 13, 1917)

This is the greatest deception put forth upon mankind since the beginning of time...Hundreds of Millions flock to shrines every year to "Venerate" this "Apparitional mary"...Sadly this mary has no more power to save than do I!!

Only Christ Saves!

 

Here is an excerpt from some interesting information I came across regarding the heretical "Maryolatry" the Catholic Church is guilty of...

To use the scriptures that speak of our being "co-workers" in the spreading of the gospel to justify the clear idolatry and heresy that the Catholic Church promotes regarding the supposed "Queen of the Universe" Mary is incomprehensible.

May God have mercy on John Paul II

Sadly,

Mike

Maryolatry of Pope John Paul II

 

Am I allowed to do this? (A picture speaks a thousand words)

Tyler

 

Anything or anyone that detracts from the person and deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, is of the enemy.

Are these "visions" of Mary asking devotees to do things real? Sometimes no. Sometimes yes. Satan and his demons are very real....

 

Originally posted by D28guy:
May God have mercy on John Paul II
Sadly,
Mike

I join in your sadness, Mike, especially since John Paul died in April calling on Mary.

 

I get a kick out of the fact that other Protestant Church claim the Seventh Day Adventist Church is "a cult" when at the same time they rail against the Roman Catholic Church, while at the same time, they themselves are bowing down to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope.

In Revelation Chapter 14:6-12 it says those who have the Mark of the Beast are in contrast with God's people who "keep the commandments of God", this includes ALL of the commandments, the 7th day Sabbath being one of them.... the one that is pointed out in Revelation 14 when it warns humanity to worship Him who CREATED the heavens and the earth". (this is quoted straight from Exodus 20 and the 4th commandment, the Sabbath commandment).

Here are Protestants, railing on the Seventh Day Adventists and claiming they are a "cult" and claiming that the Roman Catholic Church is a "cult" when at the same time they bow to the Pope by keeping the Sunday Sabbath, which was institited by the Pope, the Roman Catholic Church itself, and is nowhere to be found in the Word of God!

In order to understand the "mark of the beast," we must first clearly define the beast. This beast is fully described in Revelation 13:2 and 3.

'And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. " Revelation 13:2,3.

God has clearly pointed out who this beast is. We wish to review briefly six of these points of identity showing that the Papacy is the beast of Revelation 13. We begin by reading from the Holy Word.

"And he shall speak great words against the most High. " Daniel 7.25.

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. " Revelation 13:5.

1. God clearly portrays this power as one that is guilty of blasphemy, assuming the titles and power that belong to God alone.

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them. " Daniel 7.21.

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. " Revelation 13:7.

2. In these two verses God has pointed out that this power would persecute the saints. History reveals that nearly 150 million people have been destroyed as a result of this organization.

"I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots. " Daniel 7.8.

3. In ascending to power this organization was to destroy three of the ten ruling kingdoms and to rule over the remaining seven. History reveals that this is exactly what the Papacy did. It destroyed the Heruli in A.D. 493, the Vandals in A.D. 534, and the Ostrogoths in A.D. 538, thus turning the pope into a temporal sovereign.

"And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7.-25.

4. God distinctly declares that this power was to rule with complete supremacy for a period of 1260 years. Time represents one year; times, plural, represents two years; and a dividing of times would be half of a year. Add them all together; this is three and one-half years. Allowing thirty days to a Bible month, with twelve months to a year, we have 360 days in a Bible year. The rule of prophecy, according to Ezekiel 4:6, is that a day stands for a year, for God said, "I have appointed thee each day for a year. " Adding these all up, we have 1260 days equaling 1260 years.

The Papacy began its temporal reign in A.D. 538 when it destroyed the third little horn, and it ended its unbroken supremacy 1260 years later, exactly as God had predicted, when Berthier, the French general, took the pope prisoner. Thus the Word of God was fulfilled.

Now we come to the most amazing description of all.

5. God has given to us a number whereby this power can be identified.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast. for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Revelation 13:18.

When the pope is crowned he is given the official title of Vicarius Filii Dei, which means Vicar of the Son of God.

LATIN

V=
5
F=
0
D=
500

I=
1
I=
1
E=
0

C=
100
L=
50
I=
1

A=
0
I=
1

R=
0
I=
1

I=
1

U=
5

S=
0

112
+
53
+
501=
666



Latin, of course, is the official language of the Papacy, and therefore we would expect to find the Roman numerals adding up his number. It is surprising why so few in this enlightened generation are unaware of the Bible prediction.

One of the most amazing facts is that you can do this in the Latin, in the Hebrew, or in the Greek. It will all add up to the same-666.

Now we come to the last point of identity, the "mark of the beast"!

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws. " Daniel 7.25.

6. Take a careful look at what God means when He says that this power would "think to change times and laws." There is only one law of God, and that is found in Exodus 20. There is only one portion of that law in which time is a factor. Let's read the fourth commandment as God wrote it.

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. " Exodus 20:8-1 1.

Can we discover where the Papacy has actually attempted to change the divine law of God affecting a time element? Yes, we certainly can. If you will open any Roman Catholic Catechism and turn to that portion dealing with the law of God, you will discover that the law has indeed been greatly changed. They have left out the second commandment entirely and divided the tenth commandment into two parts, thus attempting to still retain ten commandments. But notice the fourth particularly. The time element has been deliberately removed, along with the express command stating which day is the Sabbath. All that remains are the words, "Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.'

Let us read a most challenging statement made by the Church. They have done exactly what God predicted they would do.

"The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret, even divine laws....The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of binding and loosing the sheep."-From the Prompta Bibliotheca published in 1900 in Rome by the press of the propaganda.

"The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.

The pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right by correcting and changing laws."-Pope Nicholas, Dis. 96.

It is within the inspired words "think to change times and laws" that we discover the "mark of the beast."

The following are all authentic quotations that will definitely answer our questions as to what the "mark of the beast" is. Notice them carefully.

"The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."-Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893.

You will notice in this information that the Church declares that it was not God Who changed the day from Saturday to Sunday but that they, the papists, were the ones who made this change. The Sabbath was officially changed by the Papacy at the Council of Laodicea on March 7, 364 A.D. That was 43 years after Constantine declared Sunday the day for Christians to honor as a rest day.

"Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

"Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

This quotation emphasizes the fact that since the world accepts Sunday as a day of worship, this acknowledges her supremacy.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No; by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. 'Priest Enright, C.S.S.R., Kansas City, Missouri.

There is no question concerning the changing of Sabbath the seventh day to Sunday the first day by the Papacy. You can readily see that there is nothing to be found in the Bible about changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. The Papacy is correct in stating that they changed the day.

"In reply to a letter of October 28, 1895, to Cardinal Gibbons, asking if the church claimed the change of the Sabbath as her mark, the following was received: 'Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act .... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.'-C.F. Thomas, Chancellor."

Sunday is the mark of authority of the Roman Catholic Church. It is the "Mark of the Beast." Of this there is absolutely no question, either in the Word of God or in history.

Are Protestant churches aware of these facts? Do they agree that there is no Scriptural authority for Sunday keeping? Let us now turn to the various Protestant churches and hear from them.

Presbyterian: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath.'Dwight's theology, vol. 4, p. 401.

Congregational: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

Lutheran: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."-"Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

Friends, don't you think that when a church admits they are following a teaching not founded on the Word of God, they ought to change and follow God's Word?

Episcopalian: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."-Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186, translated by Henry John Rose, B.D. (Philadelphia: James M. Campbell & Co., 1843).

Here is another church that admits it was not the apostles' intention that the day of worship should ever be changed.

Methodist: "it is true there is no positive command for infant baptism .... Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week."-Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180, 181, 1902 ed.

Even our Methodist friends admit that there is nothing in the Bible directing us to keep Sunday holy. Let us turn to our friends the Baptists:

Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, before a group of ministers, made this candid admission:

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges, and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

"Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"-From a paper read before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov. 13, 1893.

Here is one of the leaders of a great Protestant denomination clearly admitting that Sunday keeping is branded with the Mark of paganism.

While God clearly gives us His warning against the acceptance of the "mark of the beast," He also admonishes us to be sure to receive His seal.

"Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples." Isaiah 8:1 6.

Notice that the seal is to be used in identifying the law among God's disciples. What are the essentials of a seal? A seal is placed upon legal documents; it stamps them as authentic. Placed upon a proclamation of a ruler, a seal testifies that it is genuine. Such a seal usually gives the name, title, and dominion of the ruler. For instance, in the early days of our country when the first President took office, his seal contained these three points: name, George Washington; title, President; territory, the United States of America. Just so God's seal would contain these three facts-His name, the Lord thy God; His office, Creator; His territory, heaven and earth. Now let us read carefully the fourth commandment and see if we can discover the seal within the law.

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. " Exodus 20:8-1 1. (Emphasis added).

Did you catch the three identification marks of a seal? Notice them carefully: the name, The Lord thy God; His authority, Creator. He demands that we honor Him by keeping holy the seventh day, showing our acceptance of this authority; His territory, "heaven and earth." Herein is the seal of God.

Contrast this now with the counterfeit, called the "mark of the beast": the name, Pope; his authority, he claims power to change God's holy day-to keep holy the first day of the week (and in so doing we give him our allegiance); his territory-he claims that of heaven and earth.

What does God plainly have to say of our decision to receive the seal of God or the "mark of the beast"?

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16.

My dear friends, there you have it. God is reaching down and touching your heart with His mighty appeal for you to follow the teachings of Jesus. Won't you obey Him? The acceptance of His shed blood in your behalf will bring you eternal salvation. This is why Jesus Christ is personally sending His last appeal to you. It is of such importance that it has been pictured symbolically by an angel flying in the midst of heaven.

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever. and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name". Revelation 14:9-11.

Friend, no matter where you turn in the Scriptures you will find all the prophets pleading and admonishing us to obey God and not the dragon power. To each is given the choice, but as in the Garden of Eden-will we believe God, obey His command to keep the Sabbath, and live? Or, will we listen to the dragon through the medium of the Papacy and obey its commands in keeping Sunday, and be lost? God will help each one of us not to make the mistake of our first parents.

As you look out upon the world, you will find that the vast majority are following this false system, and this is exactly what God predicted would happen in the last days of this world's history.

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. " Revelation 13:8.

I ask you to turn your eyes upon the cross of Calvary. If the law possibly could have been changed, Jesus would not have had to die. Behold Him, His hands and feet driven through, His head crowned with thorns, and a spear thrust in His side. We behold Jesus dying of a broken heart for you and me. Such love calls us, saying,

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. " John 15:1 0.

Dear friend, many of you have discovered that you are unknowingly and unwittingly following a teaching that is contrary to the Word of God. Jesus will forgive all this. But can you continue in so doing? Jesus says:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46.

Everyone should pray that God will give you the courage to do what you know He wants you to do. There are millions of Sabbath keepers around the world today that reach out a helping hand to you and invite you to join them in keeping God's commandments.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. " Revelation 22:14.

 

My salvation is based on faith in the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. Not on what day I enter a building to worship. "Not of works..."

 

Well I attend church on sunday's because that is when they are held...I am not Saved by my observance as saturday as the Sabbath(way to legalistic for me), but as Christ Alone as my means for Salvation...BTW, I don't think Jesus is "Michael" the ArcAngel, nor do I bow down to Ellen White as my "pope"...! Only Christ is All in ALL and SAVES ALL...!

Only Christ Saves!

 

In addition to the false teaching that much of the Protestant world has accepted from the Papacy, such as the false Sunday Sabbath, they have also accepted the idea that the dead go straight to heaven or hell at time of death, and thus, that they can be communicated with. Even though they may claim that we "shouldnt" talk to the dead, nevertheless, they have accepted this lie from the Roman Catholic Church (who got it from the pagan Greeks) that the dead are "alive".

This is ridiculous because the Bible clearly tells us the dead in Christ wont rise from their graves till the second coming of Christ. So much of the Protestant world is AIDING AND ABETING this lie of the Virgin Mary communicating with us, even though they denounce the Catholic Church. They have accepted false doctrines FROM the Roman Catholics and passed them off as truths. And then they rail on the Seventh Day Adventist Church ..when its the Seventh Day Adventist Church who has been trying to open their eyes to the fact that they are kissing the Pope's feet daily. And the also rail on the Roman Catholics for following "tradition" instead of the Word of God alone.


The theory of the immortality of the soul was one of those false doctrines that Rome, borrowing from paganism, incorporated into the religion of Christendom. Martin Luther classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255. Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, the Reformer says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.


"They allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appear, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." Martin Luther, Augsburg Confession of Faith, art. 28.


How was man created?

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Answer: God made us from dust...


When a person dies does he go straight to heaven or hell?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
" Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies- whether righteous or wicked- returns to God at death.


What exactly is "the spirit" of man?

James 2:26
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
Job 27:3
"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils."

The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. The 'spirit' does not have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.


What is a "soul"

Genesis 2:7
" And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

A soul is a living being: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined.


DO SOULS DIE?

Ezekiel 18:20
" The soul that sinneth, it shall die. "
Revelation 16:3
"Every living soul died in the sea."

Souls do die, for man is not immortal. (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal (I Timothy 6:15,16). The idea of an undying, immortal soul came from paganism


What happens to Christians who are good people, when they die?

John 5:28,29
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth."
Acts 2:29,34
" David... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." " For David is not ascended into the heavens"
Job 17:13
"If I wait, the grave is mine house."

People do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day.


Are dead people able to communicate with the living?

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6
" For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. "
Psalm 115:17
"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!


Job 14:12,21
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." "His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them."
Eccesiastes 9:6
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. "

Their thoughts have perished. (Psalm 146:4)


Jesus called death "SLEEP" JOHN 11:11-14 How long will the dead sleep?

Job 14:12
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."
II Peter 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away."

The dead will sleep until the second coming of Christ at the end of the world. In death humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind. Jesus calls death "sleep". It is a state of total unconsciousness.


When do the dead awaken?

Revelation 22:12
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
I Thess. 4:16,17
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and the dead in Christ shall rise... and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
I Corinthians 15:51-53
"We shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ...and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, ...For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to Heaven at death.


There will be false miracles in the last days -based on the false teaching that the dead can be communicated with.

Revelation 16:14
"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles."
Matthew 24:24
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13,14). Satan and his angels will appear as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23,24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic world revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God's elect will not be deceived.
The Virgin Mary supposedly is able to be communicated with a performs "miracles".


WHY WILL GOD'S PEOPLE NOT BE DECEIVED?

God's people will know from an earnest study of the Word that the dead are dead, not alive. Spirits of the dead do not exist. Therefore, God's people will reject all miracle workers and teachers to claim to receive special 'light' or work miracles by contacting spirits of the dead. And God's people will likewise reject as dangerous and false all teachings that claim the dead are alive in any form, anywhere.

 

Now that were finished "cutting and pasting", maybe you could give some of your own viewpoints?

Only Christ Saves!