Question relative to baptism

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Luke 12:50

But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. Matt 20:22,23

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16


Is it possible these are all the same baptism?

An after thought. Is, "to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with," the gospel, as here? But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 2 Tim 1:10

Good questions, Percho.

Supplementary Qs -
1. Was there an OT form of baptism?
2. Why was John's baptism readily accepted - except by the authorities? Matthew 3
3. Why did they expect Elijah, the Prophet, or the Messiah to baptise, so disqualifying John ? John 1:19-28
4. Why did Jesus appeal to John's baptism when questioned about his authority to cleans the temple? Matthew 21:23-27
5. What are the various baptisms referred to in Hebrews 9:10 ?
6. How does baptism with water represent baptism with the Holy Spirit (& fire) performed by the Messiah? Matthew 3. 1 Corinthians 12:13
7. Vast numbers of faithful believers were baptised as babies or adults by sprinkling. Was & is such baptism valid?

Not a final answer, but discussion point .... We all carry out baptism by immersion, but sprinkling or pouring has significance, particularly when we consider the Holy Spirit baptism which God does from above. My thoughts are developed from conversations with evangelical paedobaptists.

I'm not a Hebrew & Greek scholar. I'm using the blueletterbible.org which gives access to Hebrew & Greek, & Strongs numbering system for word search.

Beginning at Heb. 9:10 which refers to OT various baptisms....

He immediately refers to the red heifer ritual Numbers 19 for cleansing from contact with dead bodies, contrasting that ceremonial cleansing with the perfect cleansing by Jesus' blood. David alludes to the red heifer ritual in Psalm 51:7 for cleansing from his adultery & murder.

He continues with the OC dedication in Exodus 24, where on profession of obedience, animal blood was sprinkled on the congregation.

OC "baptism" by sprinkling?!? But NC Holy Spirit baptism is thus:

AFAIK the only direct use of the word baptism in the OC is with Naaman, baptising himself 7 times in the Jordan - immersing.
The Hebrew word is טָבַל tabal which when searched is used in a number of rituals in the form - the plant hyssop is dipped into sacrificial blood & used to sprinkle or 'paint' - on the door frame in the Passover ritual (Exodus 12:22); cleansing from leprosy (Lev. 14:6-7); the red heifer ritual (Numbers 19:18-19)
The OC dedication in Exodus 24 doesn't mention dipping hyssop in the blood to sprinkle it, but that is the procedure described in Hebrews 9:16-22

Is John given water baptism as a potential NC ritual to say in effect: "the OC baptisms with animal blood left you stained with blood, until you washed. This baptism prefigures the Holy Spirit baptism Messiah will do, which cleanses not just the body but the soul as the sinner comes to God in repentance."

percho said:

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Luke 12:50

But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. Matt 20:22,23

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16


Is it possible these are all the same baptism?

An after thought. Is, "to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with," the gospel, as here? But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 2 Tim 1:10

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Friberg (00952) and Louw-Nida (01131 53.41) lexicons indicate that "baptism" can be symbolic of martyrdom and/or great suffering.

HankD

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Cor 10:1,2

And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD. And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt? Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness. Ex 14:10-12

Concerning these whining, complainers; Was this, a suffering, a martyrdom, "baptism," unto Moses or was the, "baptism," unto Moses of salvation?

By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. Heb 11:29

percho said:

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Cor 10:1,2

And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD. And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt? Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness. Ex 14:10-12

Concerning these whining, complainers; Was this, a suffering, a martyrdom, "baptism," unto Moses or was the, "baptism," unto Moses of salvation?

By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. Heb 11:29

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Baptism has a general meaning in terms of human experience - usually a profound human experience.

And yes for the whining Hebrews it was indeed "suffering":

Exodus 14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt?

Numbers 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

Numbers 14:35 I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

HankD

percho said:

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Cor 10:1,2

And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD. And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt? Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness. Ex 14:10-12

Concerning these whining, complainers; Was this, a suffering, a martyrdom, "baptism," unto Moses or was the, "baptism," unto Moses of salvation?

By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. Heb 11:29

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I think we should understand "baptism" as a positive, faith experience. They were uncertain in their faith, but they did follow Christ in the cloud & through the Red Sea.

The whining & complaining was not a mark of faith but of doubt. As Paul points out, water baptism doesn't save, we need Holy Spirit baptism into Christ. 1 Corithians 12:13, Galatians 3:26-29

John made this very clear when he rebuked those Pharisees who came to his baptism. Matthew 3:7-9

HankD said:

Friberg (00952) and Louw-Nida (01131 53.41) lexicons indicate that "baptism" can be symbolic of martyrdom and/or great suffering.

HankD

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Immersion baptism is a sign of death to sin. burial & resurrection to new life. Those at Pentecost who were baptised knew they were being baptised into the name of one condemned & crucified.

Pouring/sprinkling baptism is a sign of Holy Spirit baptism, from Jesus above, & also of accepting the shed blood of Jesus, as the Israelites were sprinkled with the shed blood of the Old Covenant sacrifices.

The martyrdom baptism of the Apostles was a consequence of their water baptism into Christ.

Covenanter said:

Immersion baptism is a sign of death to sin. burial & resurrection to new life. Those at Pentecost who were baptised knew they were being baptised into the name of one condemned & crucified.

Pouring/sprinkling baptism is a sign of Holy Spirit baptism, from Jesus above, & also of accepting the shed blood of Jesus, as the Israelites were sprinkled with the shed blood of the Old Covenant sacrifices.

The martyrdom baptism of the Apostles was a consequence of their water baptism into Christ.

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As a Christian of Baptist persuasion, I don't see water being poured or sprinkled as fulfilling biblical NT water baptism.

Nor do I see the OT sprinkling of blood as a picture of NT water baptism or the baptism in/of the Holy Spirit.

HankD