Greek Tenses and OSAS

That is the error of equivocation - to equivocate the error of OSAS with the text of John 3 (at text that says nothing about losing free will at salvation or the lack of the need to persevere to "ensure salvation" as Paul says to Timothy).

If you can paste OSAS on to the back of John 3 so that one must refute scripture to get at the error of OSAS - then indeed you are successful. But that is not the way it works.

In Christ,

Bob

 

"Take pains with these things" -- why?

Paul shows himself doing this very thing “in order that I may lay hold of that for which I was laid hold of by Christ”

And the prize is explicitly stated by Paul “ gain Christ” and “attain to the resurrection from the dead” – not that I have already obtained it.

How can anyone read these clear texts and water them down to “that is just diligent effort for effort’s sake not to actually attain or gain or retain or hold on to anything”??

 

Ed,

so we are slaves? Where does this come from? You appear to be confused.
OSAS is false for sure if you have to deny a free will!

 

Here is some interesting reading while
I write some scriptures.
We are Slaves of Christ if we
are Once Saved (OS):

http://www.bethelministries.com/slaves_of_christ.htm

Today "slave of Christ" gets 2,690,000 hits on Google.

 

BobRyan: //That is the error of equivocation - to equivocate the error of OSAS
with the text of John 3 (at text that says nothing about losing
free will at salvation or the lack of the need to persevere
to "ensure salvation" as Paul says to Timothy).//

If you can discuss John 3 especially John 3:16 AND NOT MENTION OSAS,
now would be a real good time to do it.

Your reasoning is circular:
OSAS is false
Ed ties OSAS to John 3:16, therefore OSAS is false.
Of course, if you assume something true, you aught
to be able to prove it true

Talk John 3:16 and don't talk OSAS, until you believe
that once Jesus saves a person, Jesus keeps them saved.


Janosik: //Ed,
so we are slaves? Where does this come from? You appear to be confused.
OSAS is false for sure if you have to deny a free will!//

Romans 1:1a (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/):
Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, ...

BTW, 'apostile' comes from a Greek term meaning 'one who is sent (as a slave)'
'Deacon'comes from a Greek term meaning 'foot washing slave'
"Bishop' comes from a Greek term meaning 'a slave who has authority
over other slaves'.

I can't find it real quick, but it is said that among those in Christ:
the greatest will be the servant (slave) of all.

But all the leadership positions in the church same from
Greek slave words.

Philippians 1:1 (HCSB):
Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus

Christians who think they are free men think themselves better
than Paul.

Titus 1:1a (HCSB):
Paul, a slave of God, ...

James 1:1a (HCSB):
James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ: ...

2 Peter 1:1a (HCSB):
Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ: ...

 

Sure thing Ed -

16 ""For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 ""For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Through the sacrifice of Christ - Salvation is for those who believe - which is the point of the text. It can not be twisted or construed to deny Christ's warning in Matt 18 on "Forgiveness revoked" or the warning given in Matt 6 about the father NOT forgiving us if we do not forgive others.

The "Perseverance" texts of the NT are perfectly inline with this conditional salvation model.

The striving involved in perseverance –

This shows forgiveness of former sins in the purification of justification and sanctification. It does not show a cart blanch covering for all future sins. (We just saw this in James 5 above)

These texts also do not describe a defacto “drift into heaven”.

But rather a “pressing on” as in Phil 3 and a “buffeting” as in 1Cor 9.

The OSAS doctrine guts the very core of the “motivation” we see in 1Cor 9 as Paul EXPLICITLY says “LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified”. OSAS goes after that point – directly, explicitly and without remorse.


"Take pains with these things" -- why?

Paul shows himself doing this very thing “in order that I may lay hold of that for which I was laid hold of by Christ”

And the prize is explicitly stated by Paul “ gain Christ” and “attain to the resurrection from the dead” – not that I have already obtained it.

How can anyone read these clear texts and water them down to “that is just diligent effort for effort’s sake not to actually attain or gain or retain or hold on to anything”??


In Christ,

Bob

 

Notice that the SLAVE in this case has to continually CHOOSE to remain obedient. This is the same point Paul makes in Romans 6 EVEN arguing that you are "the SLAVE of the one you OBEY" and pointing out that IF we choose to OBEY sin we become ITS SLAVE!!

This is the very thing you sought to negate in your reference above. Yet Paul argues it TO THE SAINTS -- TO the Christian church as a motivator for them to CHOOSE to remain obedient to Christ!

This is such a huge red flag showing you exactly where your model is broken Ed - how can it be missed??

In Christ,

Bob

 

This topic is continued at:

#2 Greek Tenses and OSAS