God's Plan For The Ages

"Physical Israel" will only be saved the same way anyone else is--through faith in Christ. The Old Covenant has been done away with. The nonbelieving Jews are manifestly not part of the true Church of God. Only when they receive Christ will that be they be in the Church--as partakers of the New Covenant.

"For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are of the seed of Abraham" Romans 9:6

 

I wrote this earlier. I may revise it again,
if you have a constructive suggestion, feel
free to post it here, in a PM, in an E-mail
according to your own personal style:

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Expanded pretrib timeline:

0. church age continues

1. rapture/resurrection

2. The 7-year Tribulation Period

2a. Starting events
2a1. The seven year AC/Israel treaty
2a2. The revelation of the AC

2b. the first half (3.5years) - the Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2b1. The Seal Judgments (Revelation 6)
2b2. Rise of the Antichrist
2b3. Ten nation confederacy (Daniel 2:42-44;
---- Daniel 7:7,24; Rev 12:3; Rev 17:12,16)
2b4. The ministry of Elijah (Rev 11:3, Malachi 4:5,6)
2b5. Ministry of the 144,000 Israeli (Rev 7)
2b6. The Trumpet judgements/wrath (Rev 8-9)
2b7. The false church (ecclesiastical Babylon)
----- (Revelation 17:1-6)

2c. the mid-tribulation events
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2c1. The Little Scroll (Rev 10)
2c2. AC killed (Rev 13:3)
2c3. Satan cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7,9)
2c4. Resurrection of AC (Rev 13:3,4)
2c5. 3 kings killed, 7 submit to AC
2c6. destruction by AC of false church (Rev 7:16)
2c7. Death/resurrection of two witnesses
2c8. Worship of the AC starts (Rev 13:3,4,8)
2c9. Rise of the False Prophet (Rev 13:11-15)
2c10. MOB=mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18)
2c11. 7-year covenant broken (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 11:41)
2c12. AOD=abomination of Desolation
----- (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:4)
2c13. Persecution of the Jews begins
----- (Rev 12:1-6)

2d. the second half (3.5years) - the Great Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2d0. Rule of the Antichrist
2d1. the Bowl Judgments/wrath (Rev 16)
2d2. protection of the Jewish Remnant
---- (Micah 2:12; Matthew 24:16; Revelation 12:6,14)
2d3. Armageddon (these items are in time sequence):

2d3a. - assembling the allies of AC
------- (Rev 16:12-16)
2d3b. - destruction of Babylon
------- (Isaiah 13; Jeremiah 50-51; Revelation 18)
2d3c. - Fall of Jerusalem
------- (Micah 4:11-5:1; Zachariah 12:1-9; 14:1,2)
2d3d. - Armies of AC at Bozrah (Jeremiah 49:13,14)
2d3e. - Conversion of Israel complete
------- (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27)

(2e the end of the Trib, which is the Second Advent
---- of Jesus to defeat the AC and set up the MK)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
3a. postrib gathering and resurrection of the trib saints
3b. antichrist and false prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire
- 19:20-22!
3c. The Judgment of the Nations= Matthew 25:31-46

4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom

5. Satan loosed for a little season to deceive the Nations - Revelation 20:7-8!

6. The final battle of God and Magog! - Revelation 20:8-9!

7. Satan cast into the lake of Fire. - Revelation 20:10!

8. The Great White Throne of Judgment! - Revelation 20:11-15!

9.new heaven & new earth - 2 Peter 3:10

10. The Eternal Kingdom! The New Heavens and New Earth
and the New Jerusalem! - Revelation 21:1-3!

 

The Old Covenant has been fulfilled in Christ. There is no longer Jew nor Greek in the New Covenant Church. It is one Body (see Eph 2:14-22). There will be no return to dealing with Physical Israel in the nationalistic distinctive terms of the Old Covenant as that covenant has been done away with. Unbelieving Jews are grafted back on in to the ONE NEW COVENANT BODY in the same way that Gentiles are--through faith in Christ. The Elect--Jews or Gentiles--are the ones who are in Christ; not those who observe the ceremonial works of the Torah or who are part of some physical ethnic group. "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are of the seed of Abraham" Romans 9:6.

Folks would do well to spend more time reading the New Testmanent--in context--than proof-texting it to come up with some fancy charts or speculative timelines.

 

Greetings

</font>[/QUOTE]Well - yes! But you have only presented half the story. You have correctly discussed individuals who must be saved like any other person who has ever lived - by faith in Jesus.

Abraham is this example (Romans 4). He was justified by faith believing in the as yet then unknown name of the Promised Seed.

The national Israelites who will be saved in a day will be saved in this exact same way. Nothing you have said do I disagree with.


However, now you need to see that God still has plans for national Israel. A nation cannot get saved (recall the individuals can). God will re-establish national Israel. Jesus will sit on David's literal throne in literal Israel. The nations of the world will come up to Jerusalem to see and worship Messiah Jesus. None of these great things that will happen to national Israel in any way changes the way that an individual gets saved.

God's promises to national Israel will be kept.
Lloyd

 

Amen, Brother ascund -- Preach it!

 

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

 

God's promises to "national Israel" have been fulfilled in Christ and thus the Church. The Church is the New Covenant Kingdom, the Holy Nation.

 

Amen, Brother Doubting Thomas. Preach it!

 

Hey Doubting Thomas

So the nations have no spears (Isa 2:4)?

You would put a wolf in with a lamb (Is 11:6, 65:25)?

You would let your children play with snakes (Isa 11:8)?

How is it that a one hundred year old person is considered to be a child (Isa 65:20)?

Do you actually think we dwell in peace?


How does your errant Church replaces Israel view explain all of these? Sorry - this is an obvious rhetorical question for you have no Bible answer.
Lloyd

 

The kingdom is both "now and not yet". Obviously the consummation of all things hasn't taken place yet as Christ Himself has not yet returned to judge the living and the dead. However, when He does so there isn't going to be a resumption of favored status based on ethnic distinctions. The Inheritors of the Promise are those in the Church of Christ whether Jew or Greek, and this will continue to be the case in the Eschaton.

 

Hey Doubting Thomas

Again you present a half truth. Yes - you are right that their remains no ethnic differences for those in the Christ's Church. Here you must see your very own statement as pertaining to individuals.

What you miss is that God has a master plan for national Israel. The major issues relate to the Abrahamic Covenant.

God made three major kinds of promises.
First, personal promises to Abraham. God would make Abraham a blessing to others.

Second, national promises concerning Israel. God promised to make Abraham’s physical descendants a great nation. Their land would go from the Nile to the Euphrates (Gen 12:7, 13:14-15; 15:18-21; 17:8) as an everlasting covenant (Gen 17:7, 19).

Third, God made universal promises which would affect all peoples of the world. God vowed that all peoples would be blessed through Abraham’s physical line of descendants (Gen 12:3; 22:18; 28:14).

The most crucial of the three major issues is whether or not the covenant is conditional or unconditional. If the covenant was unconditional, then every promise must be somehow fulfilled by national Israel. If the covenant was conditional, then not every promise has to be fulfilled.

Covenant theologians typically hold that the national promises are unconditional but must be interpreted allegorically. Dispensational theologians hold that all promises are unconditional and to be fulfilled literally.

I have three questions but will only deal with one here. Does God promise Israel permanent existence as a nation?

In light of the unconditional nature, the Abrahamic Covenant has at least a twofold effect upon Israel.

First, it guarantees Israel permanent existence as a nation. A covenant cannot be everlasting if one party of the covenant ceases to exist. Several passages promise that it spite of Israel’s terrible sins, it never will be totally destroyed as a nation.

In Rom 11, Paul taught that even in his day the people of Israel were still beloved of God in accordance with His sovereign choice of them to be His people.
The Guarantee of Israel’s Permanent Ownership of the Land

The second aspect of the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant is that it guarantees Israel permanent ownership of the Promised Land. God promised Canaan to Abraham and the people of Israel forever (Gen 12:7; 13:14-15; 15:18-21; 17:8; I Chr 16:15-18; Psa 105:8-11). This does not mean that Israel had to live in the land in order to maintain ownership.
The prophets foretold of a total, permanent restoration of Israel.

Ezekiel had many such prophesies.

When this restoration takes place, all of the Jews will be righteous (Deut 30:6-8). God regards Israel as the continuous owner is spite of its various dispersions from the land.

Lloyd

 

God's plan for physical Israel was to bring Christ into the world. That is how that nations are blessed by physical Israel. In Christ all national distinctives are done away as the Old Covenant is fulfilled. There is no longer Jew nor Greek but One Body in Christ. The Old Covenant--including all its national distinctives--was only the "tutor". The New is the fulfillment. The Church--Jew and Gentile--is the Holy Nation, the commonwealth of True Israel.

"For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham" (Romans 9:6-7) The true seed of Abraham and thus the true children of God's promise are those who have faith in Christ.

 

Hey Doubting Thomas

Your note to Rom 9:6-7 fails to use CONTEXT.

The mention of individuals is incidental to the force of the three chapters. Paul wants to discuss national Israel (9:3-4). His discussion ends with the salvation of the entire nation (11:26) since the calling of God is irrevocable (11:29).

In the near CONTEXT, Paul uses the individuals only to present the basis for God's election of national Israel (9:13-17). You base your theology on verses yanked out of CONTEXT.

Lloyd

 

And you fail to note that "national Israel" will be saved by individuals being grafted back in through faith in Christ (if they do not continue in unbelief Romans 11:23) to be part of the True Israel consisting of believing Jews and Gentiles. Those elect are elect because they are in Him who fulfilled the Old Covenant, not because of some ethnic distinction.

You base your theology on premises invented within the past 500 years (and in some cases, past 200) and verses yanked out of CONTEXT (wrongfully dividing the word of truth), thereby distorting the historical and biblical Christian Gospel.

 

Hey Doubting Thomas

Yes - again what you have written is true - but alas it is but half of the picture.

Individuals are grafted into Christ through faith. God still has plans for the national "root stock" of Rom 11.

When they are saved in one day, Jesus Himself will rule from Jerusalem on David's Throne.

Nothing you have said contradicts this. You only restrict yourself to a discussion of individuals. I agree with your view of individuals. I want you to open your eyes to God's plan for Israel as a nation.

Lloyd

 

The "national root stock" continues but as the Church not as ethnic Israel. The Church is the Holy Nation.

 

Are you really claiming that God the Son was created [Day 4]?

 

Actually less than 200 years.