"Allegorical" and "Spiritual" Hermeneutics

Revelation 20 uses the definite article with "the 1000 years" a clear indication that it is a literal 1000 years.

HankD

 

Clear statement of the truth.

 

If they were familiar with Psalm 50:10; 90:4; 105:8, oh, and Deuteronomy 7:9 (forgot that one!) then perhaps they would understand.

If I were not a contented Amil, I would be Historic Premil (but I am so I'm not ).

 

Ecclesiastes 1:4 does the literal earth remain forever?

Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

1. Deu. 1:11 "(The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)"
2. Deu. 7:9 "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;"
3. Josh. 23:10 "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you."
4. 1 Chr. 16:15 "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"
5. Job 9:3 "If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."
6. Job 33:23 "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to show unto man his uprightness:"
7. Psa. 50:10 "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."
8. Psa. 84:10 "For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."
9. Psa. 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."
10. Psa. 105:8 "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations."
11. Eccl. 6:6 "Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?"
12. Eccl. 7:28 "Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found."
13. Isa. 7:23 "And it shall come to pass in that day, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns."
13. Isa. 30:17 "One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill."
15. Isa. 60:22 "A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time."
16. 2 Pet. 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."


But because Revelation uses the word "The" its literal?

 

The big switch from the preferred method of understanding the bible came about due to Augustine making popular his spiritualising/allogirizing the prophetic scriptures.

 

The problem is that those who despise literal think that it means that we do not use the genres and word types of scriptures, but we do, prophecy/parables, metaphors etc all are seen as being legitimate meanings, just need to apply the rightones !

 

In case, does not
2A. THE GENERAL RULE.
It is important to remember that the way the article was used in Greek is not always the
same as the way we use the article in English. In English a word may have a definite
article (the), an indefinite article (a, an) or no article at all. In Greek there is no indefinite
article, so a word either has the article or it does not.
Here's an example of how the Greek usage (or non-usage) of the article can be
misinterpreted: Jehovah's Witness writers have argued that there is no article before
"God" in John 1:1 and therefore it must be indefinite: "The Word was a god" (see the
New World Translation). ls this what the non-use of the article really means?
Here is the GENERAL RULE:
I) The use of the article identifies (points out, marks out), particularizes (specifies) and
draws attention to an object, or a person. As Daniel Wallace observes: "The article was
originally derived from the demonstrative pronoun. That is, its original force was to
point out something. It has largely kept the force of drawing attention to something ... ln
terms of predominantfanction, it identifies" (Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, p. 208,
209). When the article is used, just think of a pointing finger
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/egreek/greek05.pdf

 

Not at all - it simply refers to the previous mention of the thousand years which is indefinite - a thousand years. John will tell us if that accords with the Greek.

We are moving to a new house. The house we are moving to is ....

I see the replies above - as far as I can see, the first occurrence of is - for thousand years (indefinite) while the second employs the definite article. That indefinite/definite pattern is repeated in the chapter, proving my point.

 

That was my point #49

 

Yes to the first question if you count the "new earth" as a renovation of the "old earth".
Yes to the second question.

HankD

 

You shouldn't compare 21st century English grammar and syntax with that of Koine Greek.

For one thing Koine Greek is anarthrous (has no indefinite article as does English).

HankD

 

2 Peter 3:8 isn't poetry.
But the poetic books in the Bible are still teaching truth, I think. Also, what about the instances of 1,000 when it doesn't speak of 'years'?

I am actually thinking of the number 1,000; multiples are another question. I can't think of very many places where it is to be taken literally and Prophecy 70 has given us a fine list of places where it isn't, but I'm prepared to be corrected.

As you, of course, know, there are also different types of literature in the Bible: wisdom, poetry, history, prophecy and so forth. One of these is Apocalyptic. Apocalyptic literature has a meaning to be sure, but there is a whole lot of imagery, which, if you take it literally, you are going to miss the point spectacularly. I am not expecting a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns to pop up out of the sea any time soon and I'm sure you're not either, so why insist that 1,000 years has to be literal?

However, God has made His plans, and He hasn't asked me about them, so if I'm wrong, I will look you up sometime after the rapture and beg your pardon. I try not to fall out over eschatology.

 

The point of this thread is obviously to try to prove that a literal, future millennium is prophesied when all the OT prophecies concerning Israel are to be fulfilled, on earth, centred on Jerusalem, with Jesus reigning, in person, on David's throne.

Where is that taught in the Gospels, or the letters? Where do Jesus & the Apostles give any positive prophecy for the Jews who rejected both their Messiah & the Gospel Message? Where Is a future separation of believing Israel & the Church taught?

Acts records how many thousands of Jews & proselytes Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven formed the Church from Pentecost onwards, including a great many of the priests.

As for those who persistent rejected the Gospel, Peter quotes Moses in condemning them:

22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’​

And if you still look for a future dispensation for fulfilment of OC prophecy, read on in Acts 3:

24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”​

The was open to the Jews until the destruction, when

1 Thes. 2:16 ....wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.​

No further wrath against the nation, whatever subsequently happened in history. The Gospel was & remains open to all repentant sinners.

 

Good point, but the first use of 1,000 years in Rev. 20 is in verse 2, where it lacks the article. The other instances (vs. 3, 4, 5, 7) have the article because they are referring back to verse 2, not because they are saying "This is literal!"