Confusion on just what is PSA

Perhaps then there is misunderstanding that the Law did not demand retribution, but as Romans 3 states:

19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

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Paul is not presenting that the law had some legal demand that was to be met by the suffering of Christ.

Rather, Paul presents that the law had two significant purposes.

It makes man aware that they have sinned. That those "under the law" have not hope of redemption.

Next, it is that tool of God just as the prophets were to testify and witness to the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ.

To what end, what conclusion.

As Paul again states, that God may demonstrate through Christ being both the just (one) and the justifier (one who makes others just) God's ability and authority. That the Law is not demanding retribution or satisfaction, but is a witness along with all the prophets.

Too often, in my opinion, the "legal" demands are not properly matched with the statements of Scriptures.

 

ANY valid theology of the Cross has to deal with the truth that God is Holy, and He indeed has wrath stored up for the day of judgement against all sins!

 

As Martin pointed out here though, Luther and Calvin BOTH would affirmed the truth of Jesus death in our stead as being suffering the wrath of God for our sins!Calvin and him expressed it a bit differently, but essentially same!

 

When one removes PST from the atonement of Christ, hard pressed to see exactly on what basis God can now freely forgive and accept lost sinners.

 

Except that breaking of the law brought death and judgement, and there is indeed stored up wrath of God for sins commited, and against sinners lost in their sins. Wrath not as we would have, but due to Him being Holy.

 

One ties it into Sacramentalism, and the PST just scriptures!

 

The argument of Romans 3 finds its origins in Romans 2:12-13. 'For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law , and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.' Of course, Paul goes on from there to show that Gentiles have the work of the law written on their hearts and no one does actually 'do' the law, and that Jew and Gentile alike 'under sin' (3:9) and guilty before God (3:19).

Therefore the law cannot save us (because we can't keep it) but it can point us to Christ when we realise our inability to please God through our works. But that does not mean that the broken law does not condemn us which is why we need a Saviour.

I'm sorry this is so brief, but I don't have time to plough through the whole of Romans. But 'Sin is lawlessness' and 'The wages of sin is death.'

 

And the soul that sins must die, so we all agree that someone has to taste death to pay for sins committed, and we also know God indeed has divine wrath towards sins due to Him being Holy and Just!

 

Except your statement cannot be conformed to what Paul said in Romans 3.

 

So God has no wrath for sins/sinners?

 

Romans 2 certainly precedes Romans 3.

Therefore, what I posted concerning Romans 3 was accurate.

There is nothing that I posted that you refuted bringing up Romans 2. Rather, the passages actually reinforces my statements of Romans 3.

All (including believers) suffer the WAGES of sin - death, however believers pass from death to life by putting on immortality and the death is “swallowed up in victory.” (1 Corinthians 15:54).

 

If as you contend all the wrath of God was poured out upon Christ, then your contention that God’s wrath is stored up to be poured out on sinners presents The Lord Jesus Christ as insufficient.

 

I do, and will say again, when and how does the wrath of God poured out by a Holy God as a judgement for sin occur in your understanding?

 

the death of Jesus was intend to appease JUST the wrath of God towards those sinners intended to get saved by the Cross!

 

Interesting article here!
turretinfan.blogspot.com/2012/04/response-to-bryan-cross-on-penal.html

 

First, you must document that the “wrath of God poured out by a Holy God as judgement for sin” occurred at the crucifixion.

If you only assume such without Scripture support, then no matter what is presented will conform to your thinking, for the thinking is based solely upon opinion.

Second, should you decide to attend to the Scriptures and not to opinion, then there is foundational tools from which to align the heart and mind.

Third, your question has been answered, repeatedly, and you have not refuted it other then restating your opinion.

 

Oh, no!

The death achieved far more.

Again, your lack of Scripture support displays opinion and not fact.

 

It accomplished what was intended, for just the elect of God!