Featured Spiritual Israel, Christian Israel.....instead of Replacement Theology

Actually yes. The whole purpose of the opening chapters of Romans is summed up in 3:9. 'For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.' If there were any ' that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life' no doubt they would be saved by works, but the fact is that 'there is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside..........etc., etc., Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified.' 'But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed .....even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ' (Romans 3:10-12, 20-21).

 

I don't have time to answer all of these emails aimed directly at me, most of which don't address my points at all. For example, no one yet has told me how in the world the earthly, physical throne of David that the Messiah is supposed to occupy can become Christ sitting on a throne next to the Father in Heaven (never described as David's throne).

I am at Starbucks right now, where I have to work on a grad course I am taking, History of Baptist Missions. This course matters far more to me than some dim chance I can convince anyone here of dispensational truth.

The only thing I'll take time to say is that every one of the posts you guys have piled on me fail to distinguish between individual Jews, who must get saved just as any Gentile does, and Israel as a nation. A literal hermeneutic will bring out this point easily.

Have a great weekend.

P. S. Don't ever quote Pink to me. I have no respect for the man. At the end of his life he even quit going to church.

 

With respect, brother, you will quote whomever you want and I'll quote whomever I want. I'm well aware of Pink's failings, but what he wrote is either true to the Scriptures or it isn't, and IMHO it usually is..

 

I have always wondered whether Pink suffered from depression. Depression is a virulent form of mental illness that has assailed many Christians. If I am not mistaken Spurgeon suffered from depression, or as it was called in his day 'melancholy'.

 

I think it entirely likely.
In the eyes of the world, Pink was an utter failure; his pastorates had been brief and often ended in acrimony (not usually his fault). The magazine he was writing was being read by only a tiny handful of people. The Reformed churches in the Isle of Lewis were paedobaptist and often legalistic. It is no wonder if he was depressed.

Of course he was quite wrong to stop attending church, but his books have been hugely helpful to thousands since his death, not least to myself. God has honoured his work and so should we.

 

My own family never crucified me

 

Can you Pre Darby this idea?
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/short-history-of-dispensationalism

1800 yeas of church history, and a doctrine being so "literal" no one seen until the 1800s? Sure..........

Neither is any part of the 1000 years described as Jesus ruling on "davids throne".

I think the whole Gospel explains it. The Jews were looking for a physical king to reign on earth. Jesus made it certain this was NOT the plan. Its silly to say Jesus must reign on actual Throne of David. If you want to be even more literal about it, is it his actual chair?


2nd Samuel 7
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom."He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

ACTS 2
Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.

If you stick with premillennialism and the postponement of the kingdom, David wouldn't be dead when the " kingdom" came, he would be resurrected!

Jesus came to establish the kingdom when he 1st came. He did just that, the Kingdom with out observation!
The kingdom is now, he is ruling in Heaven!

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

If you think he's leaving ultimate glory to a physical chair in Jerusalem then so be it.

 

With respect as well, what authority do you have to say what we can quote?

 

Is this not physical?

Amos 9:11
"In that day I will restore David's fallen shelter-- I will repair its broken walls and restore its ruins-- and will rebuild it as it used to be.

Is it still physical?

Acts 15
The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14Simona has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16“ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’b —
18things known from long ago.

 

I addressed this point & the teaching of Romans 11 here -

Others have also addressed the position of indivual Jews & Israel as a nation.

 

Regardless of how much you don't like what it says because it doesn't suit your unscriptural 'sola fide' dogma, the passage means precisely what it says:

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works: Ro 2

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor 5

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

....there's not even any mention of faith at the judgement, let alone 'faith alone'. We're going to be judged by our works.

Compare:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
26 If therefore the uncircumcision keep the ordinances of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision?
27 and shall not the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who with the letter and circumcision art a transgressor of the law? Ro 2

With:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

Are you going to tell me that you're not a doer, a fulfiller, of the law?

Take your 'sola fide' blinders off, stifle your aversion to any mention of works in relation to our justification, and try to rightly divide this:

...the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3:20

 

If I can be justified by works. what do I need Christ for? 'For if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ died for nothing' (Galatians 2:21). But no, I am not, in myself, a doer, a fulfiller of the law, but I know a Man who is and I am united to Him by faith.

Leaving aside the tedious ad homs, you are right on one thing. These verses need to be reconciled and just punting verses to and fro gets us nowhere. It's bedtime in Britain, so why don't you stop printing out random verses and pretending they prove your case, and explain to the people how you reconcile Romans 2:13 and Romans 3:20? If you can't do it, don't worry; I will do so sometime tomorrow (DV).

 

Well, I think better of you Martin and believe you to be a doer of the law, and, maybe you don't even realize you're doing the law ("when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?") because the law is written in your heart, and it comes NATURALLY to those whom God has wrought within. Yea, I think better of you Martin.

Ad homs? Your ego making you thin skinned like another on this thread?

I didn't just kick some passages around. I showed concisely, WE ARE GOING TO BE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS.

Sure, it's really simple:

...the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13
This comes naturally, from the heart that's had the law supernaturally written upon it. Agape, it's called, " love therefore is the fulfilment of the law".

...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3:20
Law of Moses=no path to God

 

I am trying to understand where you are coming from when you claim we are going to be judged by our works. Maybe you can make it easy for me. Instead of me asking you a bevy of questions, can I impose on your to explain how justification takes place and how works are something Christians are going to be judged on? Once I understand what it is you believe I will be in a better position to interact with you.

Thank you.

 

Are you serious? Yes or no. Are Christians included in this?:

6 who will render to every man according to his works: Ro 2

Are Christians included in this?:

29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

Are Christians included in this?:

10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor 5

Are Christians included in this?:

4 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
5 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
6 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25

 

Before I even look at the verses you posted I am going to answer your question. Yes. I am serious. I am not sure what you believe. Sometimes you post things that seem to indicate we have things in common; then you post things that make me question that. I am genuinely interested in what you believe and I think the best way to find out is to ask you directly. Of course, you do not have to answer me plainly. I am quite capable (and willing) to just move along. I am only asking because my curiosity is piqued.

 

Then answer my questions.

Yes or no. Are Christians included in this?:

6 who will render to every man according to his works: Ro 2

Are Christians included in this?:

29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

Are Christians included in this?:

10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor 5

Are Christians included in this?:

4 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
5 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
6 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25

 

Forget it. I am not that interested. I just wanted to know what you believe, not some question and answer session. I mean, if you cannot tell me what you believe, how is a pop quiz going to tell me? Anyway, I will leave you to your other conversations.