God commands disobedience to his word

Scripture does not teach "Holy Spirits." There is One God.

Secondly, being born of God is not something men effect:


John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Men do not give men the Holy Spirit, my friend. Men can effect spirits, for sure, but that has nothing to do with salvation in Christ.

Its not my intention to question whether you are saved or not, simply to understand how it is you think you were saved. You say you speak in tongues, for example, could you tell me, what languages do you now speak in. When the Gift is spoken of in Acts 2 we see 17 different languages spoken when the disciples spoke in tongues. Which ones do you speak?

And you say you have received the "gifts of the Spirit," but I have to question that, seeing you are an adversary of the Word of God. How do these gifts...


1 Corinthians 12:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;


...correlate to your disdain of Scripture?

Can you show me one Biblical reference of a man of God belittling, mocking, and speaking contrary to the Word of God?


God bless.

 

"Most Catholics rely on the Sacraments to be saved, not a born again experience."

"MOST", that is real generous of you.

Forgiveness from God is a Sacrament. You need to be forgiven by God to be saved.

Sacraments means holy stuff, God's gifts.

Like when french says sacre bleu its holy blue. Being born again is a sacrament too.


I find it amazing that you don't believe you need forgiveness from God to be saved.


I suggest learning vocabulary before misrepresenting other peoples beliefs.

 

Okay, good to know.

Can you show me in Scripture where God gives men "their own language?" As to the other languages, perhaps this is a gift of God, perhaps you are simply an educated man and trying to pull one over on people, I don't know, and it is not really important, Because even if you have been given the gift of languages we still have a conflict with your attitude towards Scripture.

Consider:


1 Corinthians 14
King James Version (KJV)

14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.


Just to make clear I see Paul rebuking the Corinthians for indulging in the pagan practice of ecstatic speech here, made clear in that the one speaking in a tongue is not understood, which conflicts with a Prophet of God and Prophecy in general, because the entire purpose of Prophecy is for God to reveal His will to men. Prophets speak to men for God, rather than speak to God for men, that is the role of the Priest.

Now, he that prophesieth (and we do not have to impose a foretelling of events into all prophesying) speaks unto men that they be edified, but look what this fellow speaking in tongues is doing...


4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


...he edifies himself.

And I will be honest, throughout this thread all I see is you seeking to edify yourself. That is a function of the Forum/s, that we can test our doctrine and practice among brethren, but usually there is a reverence for the Word of God. You have not only shown no reverence, but made God to contradict himself. That is because you are ignorant of Scripture (and I am not saying that to upset you, its just a fact). You do not understand God's command not to murder (that is, to intentionally take the life of another outside of Justice, which includes both God's judgment of sinners (i.e., slaying the peoples of Canaan, see Genesis 15:16) and Government. This was pointed out to you thoroughly, yet you ignore Scripture and continue to insist God contradicts Himself.

How do you expect anyone to view that as the efforts of a born again Christian?


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That is because you speak without knowledge of either Scripture or what it is you are saying yourself. Let's take a look at your attitude:

This is not contradictory for God's will for men. This is judgment of a people given over to idolatry. You can learn of that if you simply read Genesis.

As you study Scripture the "contradictions" many perceive give over to an understanding of just how consistent God has been throughout all Ages. While there are times when God is seen to change His mind about something, usually this is a response to the response of those involved. If you think about it there is a little bit of humor in the brazen serpent, because these people were prone to worship graven images, so it is fitting that they should look to one to be healed from a judgment of their idolatry and rebellion. Ultimately they will forfeit the promises given them, and another generation will benefit from those promises.

Again, the point is your attitude towards God and Scripture is derisive, and the fact is that anyone that gives heed to one derisive of God and His Word, which is constantly lifted up in Scripture by God and His Prophets...ought to have their heads examined.

Give examples, let's look at these instances.

Which is directly contrary to your teaching, amigo.

Read the statement you posted again:

God changes his mind a lot

It is your testimony, not God's...that is contradictory.


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Seriously?

You seriously don't understand that if a church does something the Bible says not to do that they are in conflict with what God has already said?

Your thoughts are syllogistic, my friend:

Major premise: God changes His mind a lot;

Minor premise: If God can change His mind then so can man;

Conclusion: Man can change his mind as to whether something God has said is binding.

The major premise is in error, based on your understanding. And that is the reason men embrace unbiblical traditions which violate God's Word.

You are rationalizing so you can do whatever you want.

You are forgetting that when God commanded men to put other men to death...

...it was still His Word.

Except tolerance for a millennia old Tradition of viewing those who reject God's Word as heretics?

Hmm...


Continued...

 

No, actually you were perverting the Word of God to suit what you want to believe.

It is not a fact that God said "Don't Kill" then said "Kill."

According to your reasoning we should put all of the Justice System on trial for putting men to death, because after all they "killed" too. We should put all soldiers on trial for "killing" because after all they "killed" too.

So perhaps you think we should have sat around and let Hitler take over the world? Let Saddam Hussein continue to slaughter his people, and sponsor terrorism? Let Usama bin Laden blow up more buildings?

Let men openly kill on the streets? Rob banks? Molest women and children? Listen to Rap Music?

Two different things in view. God can put to death men who violate His will, which has always, in every Age, been made known to man.

Consider:


Romans 2:11-16
King James Version (KJV)

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


Even Gentiles who did not have the written Word knew the will of God, because God has written on the hearts of every man His will.

And notice that what the Gentiles performed was not something they dreamed up, or their own will contrary to the will of God, but what was consistent with The Word of God.


Continued...

 

How can you possibly trust the Word of God that you are saved?

What if God changes His mind?

See the problem with your reasoning?

Not really. Jesus is God, and every Word God has said throughout Scripture has been consistent and harmonious. Until you understand that you will never minister to the lost for God. While it is true God uses those ignorant of His Word at times, He will never go against what He has already said.

Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses "confess" Jesus Christ, yet, like you...they throw the Word of God into a untrustworthy light.

It also stipulates that one "Believe" on the Lord Jesus Christ.

And I have to say there is a conflict between what you are saying.

"I believe in Jesus Christ but do not trust Him not to go against His Word."

I've already told you, I am not judging whether you are saved, simply questioning your doctrine, for it stands in stark contrast to what Christians believe.

As to questioning someone's salvation, show me where it is contrary to the Word of God (or why you think you have the right to appeal to the Word of God in the first place, for that matter), and I will show you numerous passages where men of God did just that, and further, made the declaration that not only were the men not saved, but predestined to an eternity of darkness and separation from God.

But, I am fully aware that one can be saved and completely ignorant of the Word of God, I have been there myself (and if you ask the right people they will tell you I still am, lol). I am also aware that men can fall into grievous doctrinal positions which lead to grievous doctrinal practice. Paul wrote much to correct that very problem.

And that is what I see in you, my friend. I would be happy to discuss these issues with you.


God bless.

 

Glad to hear it, but again, the point I am trying to make is that you really cannot be sure, can you. And keep in mind nothing I say to you is for the purpose of offense, simply to get you thinking about some things.

You are presenting God as a willy-nilly God Who can not be trusted in what He says He will do.

Actually He cannot:


Titus 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;


Hebrews 6:17-20
King James Version (KJV)

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


The concept here is that of a small boat taking a line into port to secure the larger vessel. The "hope" we have is the promise of God...Who cannot lie. He would cease to be God if He could.

Note that Christ has entered "within the veil." The Writer expands on this here:


Hebrews 10:19-20
King James Version (KJV)

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


The concept presented here, which begins in Chapter Nine, uses the imagery of the earthly Tabernacle (not the Temple, which makes this specific to the Hebrew People) and the Holy of Holies (the second chamber of the Tabernacle which only the High Priest could enter once a year). This chamber represented the earthly type or figure of the presence of God. In vv. 19-20 what is in view is man's entrance into the presence of God in reality, in the true Holiest of All, that is...Heaven.

It is both said in Scripture, "No man can see God's face," and that men did see God's face, right? We have to distinguish between the contexts. Men did see God's face in this realm, the physical universe, but, no man can see God's face in His Realm, Heaven. Paul wrote, " that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." So it remains true no man saw God's face while in the flesh, and I would take that a little further and state that Hebrews teaches (as does the Lord in Luke 16) that men did not go into the Holiest of All prior to the Cross of Christ.

The primary point being, God does not lie, and He has given you, me, and all who believe His promise to finish what He begins in us. That is why He is called the Author and Finisher of our faith.

One more passage to show we are guaranteed salvation through His promise:


Ephesians 1:13-15
King James Version (KJV)

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


The point is that if you are sealed with Spirit, indwelt by God and born again as a result of that indwelling, His very indwelling of you is His guarantee that you are saved.

Christ distinguishes between the Old Testament ministry of the Spirit, wherein He filled men with His Spirit for the purpose usually of ministry, and His indwelling which would be forever:


John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


So I just want to tell you, you can fully trust that if God has saved you, you are eternally saved. If it were a matter of our trying to keep our salvation, then He would be known as the Author and Hall Monitor of our faith.


Continued...

 

You do understand Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, right?

As a matter of fact that is the entire purpose of the Word of God, that God reveal His Will to man, that they might obey His will. And His will for us is always for our good, starting with our diets (i.e., the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil). lol

We call that intercession. Moses played the role of Priest for Israel. God can change His mind, but, He does not change His mind in ways that contradict His nature, righteousness, or what He has already declared.

That is not exactly it. It is a matter that all men/women have an internal knowledge of God's will. That is why most peoples do not condone murder, lying, stealing, etc.

The point being that God gives everyone enough knowledge that they can be saved. Unfortunately man's nature ensures rebellion and rejection of His will. But God is still merciful to intervene. He goes the extra mile, so to speak.


Continued...

 

It isn't "translated into," that is the context of the statement.

If "kill" were the context then we would also have to throw offering up sacrifice (which began in the Garden) as contradictory as well.

Not really, He cannot lie. And what that means is He is never going to change His mind about you, my friend. He is faithful, though we are not.

The point being that not all putting to death is murder. There are prescribed times when men forfeit their lives, and their lives are to be taken.

Even God will end the physical lives of believers for sin. The penalty of sin is consistently physical death throughout Scripture.


Continued...

 

He did, by using men to correct those errors, and when they did it was always in accordance with what has been previously revealed to us.

Here is an example:


1 Corinthians 1:10-13
King James Version (KJV)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


And what Paul centers on is the Cross of Christ when he commands the Corinthians not to be doctrinally divided.

The basic principle we have is to be in submission to those who have authority over us, but, if we know those in leadership have gone astray we are under no such compulsion:


Hebrews 13:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.


That is a basic principle seen throughout Scripture, however, we also take notice when leadership becomes corrupt (i.e., Pharisees and Sadducees). And when Christ pointed out corruption in those who were supposed to be the "shephards," He commanded obedience to the Word:


Matthew 23
King James Version (KJV)

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


The point here is that they sit in the place of authority that Moses held, and we look to what Moses did to understand this. Moses was the Prophet of God (he spoke to men for God, which is the role a Prophet fulfills). What they "bid" them do would have proceeded from the Law, or in other words, the Word of God.

I do not recognize any doctrine of man (and hope I do not practice them either, lol). My studies stay within Scripture, because there is no better commentary on Scripture than the commentary of Scripture.


God bless.