Pentecostalism Proven wrong, By the Bible

Baloney!!!

 

MatthewHenry

I agree with your post 10000000000%


Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

 

WOW. This should be called the cessasionist thread. I would like to offer my some of my testimony here:

In May of 1985, I was baptized in an SBC church. Then that church split. The pastor (or anybody in the church, for that matter) never sat me down to disciple me. Old Brother so-in-so never really taught me anything from the pulpit (15 minute sermons). This church split got real ugly and I left. The Charismatics lured me away with a promise of “something more.”

I met a certain soon-to-be Word of Faith preacher who ran sound and lights for local Christian rock acts. He invited me in to help. My father always worked, never taking a vacation. My mom and I were always at odds, to say the least- even after my conversion. I had nothing much spiritual at home, and I surely had not been saved long enough to know that wolves wore sheep’s clothing.

So, I fell victim to an Arminian influence that would last for years. I did not know that walking into this charismatic church would set my feet on a religious treadmill. I did not realize I was making a Galatian error (GAL 3:3).

To make a long story short, I bounced in and out of denominations, following friends and fly-by-night “Pastor-teachers” of many denominational stripes. Who was at fault? Me? Preachers? Churches? My parents?

I write this to highlight the fact that strong doctrinal preaching, full of those Calvinistic and Baptistic distinctives, needs to again echo in our SBC pulpits.

The Founders Movement is nice, but we need more than a token tip of the hat to Boyce and Spurgeon. We need God-called and Holy Ghost equipped Pastors to shepherd those “lost and tossed folks,” people with the stories similar to mine. I finally ended up back in the SBC, but I have had my share of splits and watered-down preaching.

Flash forward a few years into my adult life. My father died when I was thirty years old; that was in the year 2000. God used Dad’s death to hone and refine me. His death drove me to see life in a new way- and it pushed me to new heights. I lost my earthly father. It made me look long and hard at just who I was and what I really stood for.

I did something that I should have done years ago: I enlisted in the Kentucky Army National Guard. Why would I put myself through that at age thirty? To be honest, I almost didn’t make it through Basic Training due to being thirty pounds over-weight and badly out of shape.
I realize now that I did it for Dad. Dad was drafted in the 60’s and ended up with an 11E MOS (Military Occupational Specialty of Tank Crewman). He did his time in Germany in Armor. I went the other direction. I made it out with a 12B MOS, which is combat engineer (they blow stuff up- simply said).

My wife thought I had lost my mind when I enlisted. She now says it was “my prayer closet.” She told me in an unguarded moment that she knew that Dad’s death drove me there, and his memory pushed me on to serve. I always felt it was something that I needed to do. With two sons, I knew Active duty was out of the question. So I did what I thought I could reasonably pull off at my age and station in life.

I grew spiritually in Basic. You see, God had something there for me besides physical conditioning and Army training. I met an Army chaplain (I forget his name- I believe it was Major Moore).

I started off my Sundays attending the Assemblies of God Pentecostal Church, but the thin emotionalism and shallow preaching wasn’t nursing a wounded heart. I needed Christ more than ever at this time- I was scared of what I had finally plunged headlong into.

I had never heard the term “Reformed” before, but I walked 3 blocks down the street to a Church that was billed “to worship in the Reformed Tradition.”

I am so thankful that a Sovereign God knitted my life’s circumstances together to lead me to this church. The first thing the Major did was to ask me about my walk with Christ. I explained that I had “went forward” in a Southern Baptist Church.
He said “Oh, you are a Calvinist, then.”
I said, “What’s that mean?”
I am sure he sighed, and then he did what no other preacher dared do before:

1. He discipled me- expounded the great truths of TULIP, the 5 Solas, and expounded on the rich history of why the church had a Reformation.
2. He challenged my Arminian understanding of scripture boldly- not in pride- but for the Glory of God.
3. He kept me stocked with solid Biblical teaching (Modern Reformation Magazine, Ligonier Ministries, etc).

Up until this time, all I ever got was liberal, Arminian, and charismatic theology. I never had sat under a shepherd who really fed me. Saved in 1985. Finally fed in 2001. Hyperbole you say. I say it is a fact.

At the risk of sounding self-righteous, I will dare say as a layman that the church is full of incompetent and self-absorbed “pastors” who need to lead, follow, or just get out of the way.

I like the way John Macarthur (a personal hero of mine) says it: “love without truth is just sentimental hypocrisy.”

People want strong doctrinal preaching- contrary to what Satan teaches through the lazy liberals in many of the very seminaries your tithes support! Demand more from your preacher factories! Many a poor Christian could use a first class education, too. Let’s help make this happen.

This Chaplain told me about how he had enjoyed the teaching of Dr. RC Sproul; Sproul had been one of the Chaplain’s professors in seminary. This Army Chaplain wasn’t Southern Baptist, but he was a man who had a rock-solid soteriology (that term means “study of Salvation” for those who may not know).

This man knew how we are really saved- by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Isn’t it ironic that I had to get outside the SBC to hear about our Calvinist roots? Chew on that one, ye seminarians. I guess many of the pastoral SBC-trained “physicians” out there need to “heal themselves” by reading Romans 9:16. Hopefully God will give them eyes and ears to see and hear.

How quickly we forget Grace....

And all you need is Christ and his Word alone. I never spoke in any tongue or recieved any sign gift. I am content with the Lamb and his unfailing gift of love- a love which by the way doesn't pass away. This is true charisma!

Forgive the long post....

[ November 29, 2005, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Heavy Metal Calvinist ]

 

I agree also I believe if you take a Calvinist and an Arminian and put them in a blender you get the truth its a combination of daily perseverance and a whole hearted belief in Christs death, burial, and resurrection. By Gods Grace through Faith in Christ that saves us from sin, death, and Hell. Yes God knows who will be saved and who will not. Do we know ? No we do not. So we must therefore go to all nations preaching the gospel of Christ. Is there an elect? If by that you mean God choose only certain people to go to Heaven then your wrong. Christ died for the whole world that through him the world might be saved. Which means we have the choice even though God knows what our choice will be we still have it. If you accept Christ you know in your heart rather you did or did not.
The Word will never contadict itself if your views contradict Gods word then your wrong.


Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

 

Ya know, that actually makes sense. There's some scriptural support for a calvinistic, and there's some scriptural support for an arminian view. But scripture does not appear to support one view to the point of negating the other. Hence, it's my opinion that hypercalvinism and hyperarminianism are both unscriptural.

 

That's why I prefer the Free Grace position.

 

Is there an expensive grace position?

 

I just meant to say that Christ is better'n any old sign gifts, Bros. We ain't going to undo 500 years of debate on the Council of Dort VS Arminus....

I am a cessasionist, and I think many signs and blunders wound and tear young believers- they become lost and tossed when they don't get this or that gift- "maybe you're in sin!"

That kinda thing, folks. Pastors exegite 1 Cor 12-13 well to save some from being lost and tossed.

A family member played a preaching tape for my wife. On it was a "prophecy" that her local preacher put out about ebola filled cars coming from Katrina wreckage- these cars will be sold and create a huge plague killing millions.

My wife said pithly, "well if he's wrong, somebody needs to stone him, OT style."

That is silliness no one hears about. And many people think they have to accept it as revelation.

 

Hey MH, sounds like we have walked some of the same ground. I once had Charismatic pastor grab me by both ears, not let go and say back in '85 that I "wasn't lettin' go." I f I would let go, he said, God would do "X" and give me "Y." Those tongue people are all my family on my wife's side. I am the black sheep becaue I believe (well, I know that scripture teaches this) that the Apostolic gifts ceased, and I have seen the roadkill this movement produces.

I just heard a 60 year old man say that God didn't want him because he hadn't been given the tongues yet. That man is religiously nuerotic, seeking an experience like a druggie seeks a fix. Grace doesn't turn us into experience seeking junkies. Grace is sufficient.....

Oh, how I could tell about prophets who buned out after three months of intensity. Guys that drop out after the experience ends. I have a dear friend who is now divorced because he got into that Copeland health and wealth stuff. He is disillusioned and out of church. Bad doctrine kills. Good preachers and teachers need to preach abut cessationism and confront the evil of the charismatic movement. The beast ain't afraid to eat up Baptists- snatch 'em right out of the craddle. I know.

 

quote by MatthewHenry
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There's no change, they act, dress, talk like the world.
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This you will find in all churches and it are those that will give other denomnations a bad rep because of a few who are mentioned in Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

As for all the other that you have mentioned it has been debated and both sides present a very good argument. As far as the nine gifts of the Spirit (1Cor.12), you don't have to have them.... its not a requirement to get to heaven. My church is more into getting people saved although we do believe in the gifts.

 

Wow, Lots of Christian love here!

 

Oh, you have no clue of the so called "love" of the False cult of pentecostalism, that I have experienced since the week after easter of 2004.

Man, If that's love, give me Hate anyday! </font>[/QUOTE]What happened? Do share.

 

Blaming an evangelist for a couple's marriage failing seems totally unrelated. Neither 'health' or 'wealth' brakes a marriage. Having a partner who is not totally committed to each other and the Lord can and often does bring failure. Many factors enter in when a marriage fails. Hating a system of theology is hardly a good reason for 'shredding' an international evangelist.

I am not Pentecostal, but one of the big reasons their churches are growing will dead, formalistic church are doing much less is because most Pentecostal love the Lord and are open to the working of the Holy Spirit.

I do not speak in tongues but once you start suggesting that the 'gifts of the Spirit' were for another period of time, then one might start disassembling the rest of N.T. theology. Maybe water baptism or Holy Communion can be peared away. No, rather we are to keep the N.T. in one unified teaching lest we take away from the Word of God, the Bible [Revelation 22:19].

Remember in the N.T. when the disciples complained to Jesus that another man of God did not follow Jesus. Our Lord's answer was in effect, 'He that is not against us if for us.' [Mark 9:38-40].

Just because other denominations have doctrines beyond 'the new birth' is no reason to verbally destroy other men and women of God. We should be slow to judge other Christians.

In the northeast we call people like that, bigots.

 

Matthew Henry said: know all the Tougue babblers in here hate me for ripping on your beliefs, but friends, I was there and I got out, with my Salvation intact.

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Tam says: No friend, I don't hate you. I will pray for you though, because you have obviously had a bad experience. Then your next mistake was to lump all full Gospels together, and "anybody" who says "any" of the gifts are still here is wrong.

You are so misinformed and closed down that I feel so sorry for you.

I will pray that God will open your eyes.

Selah,

Tam