Good Friday?

What makes any day a 'legitimate' Holiday?
For that matter, what makes any Holiday 'illegitemate'?

Romans 14:5 "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

 

Sorry, no:


Matthew 28:1-6
King James Version (KJV)

28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.


Monday might be the first day of the week for us, but it has no relevance to the first day of the week in the Word of God.

And I will just post one of your proof texts to show it does nothing to support your view:


Matthew 17:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:

23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.


Don't see anything about the second day of the week there.

Debating what Day He arose might be a little easier if "three days and three nights" were not demanded. @John of Japan would be a good one to ask what type of literary form a statement like this...


Matthew 12:40
King James Version (KJV)

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


...would be, and as to whether the statement demands a rigid interpretation that demands the three nights.

Over and over the emphasis is on the Third Day. Seeing that Northern and Southern Jews calculated days to begin differently plays an important part, I think, in when the Lord ate the Passover meal, was crucified, and arose from the dead.

But what we also see is that on the first day of the week, which would have been Sunday...He was no longer in the grave, but arisen, as He many times said He would...on the Third Day. That is the important knowledge to acknowledge.


God bless.

 

Tolerant, or conscience seared?

Perhaps you see it as quarreling, but I myself have a hard time seeing it that way when all I do is simply point out your error. You would first have to actually respond to the points made in order for it to progress to something other than simple instruction, lol.

I will take Paul's example as that which is pleasing to the Lord...


Acts 17:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,


Acts 17:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.


Acts 18:4
King James Version (KJV)

4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


Acts 18:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.


Acts 19:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.


Acts 19:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.


Especially when it comes to people who seem more set on glorifying Jews than Jesus Christ.




God bless.

 

Your ignorance knows no bounds, does it.

Both Jews and Gentiles are made one in Christ, which distinguishes the natural Jew from those who are both Jew and Gentile in Christ.

Where in anything I have said do you get the idea that I think God has forsaken Israel?

I regularly contend with many here that Israel will be saved as a Nation:


Romans 11:25-27
King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


The reason "...all Israel shall be saved is due to the fact that when Christ returns, only those who have been born again will enter into the Kingdom He establishes, which is the Millennial Kingdom of Revelation 20. You can read about the destruction of all unbelievers at Christ's Return in Matthew 25 (that's the first Book of the New Testament, by the way).

Again, more empty quoting of Scripture which not only has no relvance to the nonsense you are trying to teach, but shows why you are unable to comprehend the Word of God...laziness. Post the Scripture you feel supports your points, Zuno, don't be lazy. Most people are not going to bother to look up a Scripture reference. Secondly, if you quote the Scripture, there's a good chance you will decide not to use it when you see how seldom you are actually presenting Scripture in it's proper context.


Hebrews 2:16-18
King James Version (KJV)

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


Need I remind you Abraham was not a Jew?

The Promises are prominently given...through Abraham.

Secondly, and more importantly, the Book of Hebrews is written to Hebrews, so Israel is the focal point.

Third, There is nothing in this to support "the primary people for whom Christ died are the Jews." That is what I mean by your messianic pseudo-Baptist deceit. You glorify Jews as though they, as a people, have more importance than Israel. There is nothing in the New Testament to suggest Jews are the "better half" of the new man created in Christ Jesus.

Fourth, the primary thrust of the statement here deals with Christ becoming a man, not specifically a Jew.

And if there is something in Isaiah 53 you feel states "the primary people for whom Christ died are the Jews," by all means, post it. Don't be lazy. The Redemptive Plan of God has always been for all families of the earth, not just Jews.

Being a Jew was not good enough, that is why God promised, and established the New Covenant.


Continued...

 

What ineffable twaddle.


Ephesians 2:11-19
King James Version (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;


Paul points out the Circumcision (those under Law) and the Uncircumcision, Gentiles.

Now I ask you, Zuno...were Gentiles made Jews?

The answer is no, despite modern mythological teaching that Christians are "Spiritual Israel," and "Spiritual Jews." That is no more true than the belief we a re "the sons of Abraham. Christ did not come to make sons of Abraham, He came to make sons of God.

Now answer the question, are we Gentiles made Jews when we are immersed into God in eternal union?



12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


Next question: did the Jews, prior to Christ's death, burial, Resurrection, return to Heaven, and His sending of the Promised Spirit...have Christ?

The answer is no. They had the hope of Christ only. That is what Paul means here.

The Gentiles did not have Christ because they were not a part of the Commonwealth of Israel, to whom specific Prophecy concerning Christ was given.

God made Himself known through Israel, who was to be a witness Nation, but the fact remains...they failed miserably. That is why the New Covenant was promised.

Now, pay close attention to what Paul states, and you will see there is no concept of "Gentiles are merely collateral beneficiaries."



13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;


Did God start making Gentiles Jews?

Again, the answer is no, He began making both believing Jew and Gentile one man. A new man at that. That man does not exist in the Old Testament.

He says it again:

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Understand? Both Jew and Gentile are saved through Christ, and both are made the new man.

Nothing collateral about that.


16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


"That He might reconcile..." who?

Both.

And into one body, which is the Body of Christ, the Church, which began...at Pentecost, when the Promised Spirit came.


17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.


Afar off...Gentiles. Nigh...Jews. Both in need of reconciliation. Both in need of Eternal Redemption.


18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


Again...both.


19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


The "Saints" refer to the Just of the Old Testament, not Israel. Read Hebrews 11, you will find a lot of people who died in faith...who were not of Israel.

And this is what I mean by you glorifying Jews instead of Jesus Christ. In your efforts to do this you present heretical concepts that have nothing to do with Biblical Christianity. Which is why I told you to concentrate on Biblical Christianity, not Classical Christianity.

Gentiles are not saved collaterally, all men are saved through the very Redemptive Plan God intended to save men from all families of the earth which was known to Him before the world was even created.

All nations, Zuno:


Romans 16:24-26
King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


Continued...

 

More twaddle.


Matthew 25:31-32
King James Version (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


Christ came to the world, not just Israel.

Only in His ministry to Israel do we see an exclusivity. As the Risen Savior, He ministers to the world.

I have all liberty to say that all Jews who are not trusting in Christ are...lost.

Nothing special about being lost.

Men are only saved by trusting Jesus Christ, not just a hope that some day a Messiah will appear. Not even for the Jews, who still need to be turned from their ungodliness.

You are seriously confused.

Escaping the wrath to come is accomplished only by Christ. Men play no part in that except to convey the Gospel the Comforter enlightens their natural minds to.

When are you going to be honest with this forum and admit you are not a Baptist?


Continued...

 

Which goes against your conclusions.

Here is another one:

Isaiah 49:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


Quoted here:


Acts 13:47
King James Version (KJV)

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.


...and here...


Acts 26:23
King James Version (KJV)

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.


This is one of my favorites:


Isaiah 42
King James Version (KJV)

42 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.


Continued...

 

No, Salvation is from God.

Knowledge of salvation was through the Jews:


John 4:20-24
King James Version (KJV)

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


The only Jew Who can be attributed as providing Salvation is Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

The Jews had a great advantage...


Romans 3
King James Version (KJV)

3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


We also see...


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


And what does Paul have to say of National Israel?


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


One more:


Romans 10
King James Version (KJV)

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.


So don't glorify Jews...evangelize them.


Continued...

 

And the obvious mistake you make here is thinking that Israel is the root, lol.

They are branches, like as we.

The Tree speaks of the provision of God. Israel was a provision of God which gave to Israel relationship with Himself.

The Tree is very similar to another concept, the vine:


Psalm 80:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.


Isaiah 5
King James Version (KJV)

1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.

4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.


Jeremiah 2:20-22
King James Version (KJV)

20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.

21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?

22 For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord God.



Hosea 10
King James Version (KJV)

1 Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself: according to the multitude of his fruit he hath increased the altars; according to the goodness of his land they have made goodly images.

2 Their heart is divided; now shall they be found faulty: he shall break down their altars, he shall spoil their images.

3 For now they shall say, We have no king, because we feared not the Lord; what then should a king do to us?


Now this is the understanding the First Century Jew would have had.

Keeping that in mind, apply that to this mysterious statement of Christ:


John 15
King James Version (KJV)

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


This statement is not a general statement to all men, it is specific to men of Israel, Jews.

Just as we see a contrast to the True Bread (manna), as well as a contrast to that which was not the reality found in Christ (such as the Good Shepherd, the Door, etc.), even so here I ask you...

...what is Christ contrasting Himself with? If He is the True Vine, what is the Vine that is not true?

The answer is...Israel.

In view is basically the Lord stating "Up to now you have trusted (and rightly to a certain extent) in your heritage for the provision of God, primarily your relationship with Him. From henceforth understand I Am that provision."

What was coming was the time when the men of Israel would have to make a decision you and I have never had to make, which is to remain under Law...

...or embrace Christ, His Sacrifice, and the New Covenant. Not one of the disciples "abided in Christ," but within hours they would all scatter leaving Him alone:


John 16:28-32
King James Version (KJV)

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.


But, with the exception of one, to a man they would abide in Christ when that became a possibility for them.

The bottom line, Zuno, is Israel is not the Tree, they are branches just like Gentiles.

Our gratitude is not to Israel, but to God, Who has grafted us into the provision of His blessings and Promise.

And this means...?


God bless.

 

I ststed what "I" believe; not trying to speak for anyone else. If one chooses to be in error, fine...

 

I was not attacking your position, I was simply curious what criteria you use. I mean, the OT is full of very specific commands to "remember" a certain day (and often how to remember it), but I can't remember anything close to a commanded holiday in the NT. There is "Communion", but that is just "as often as you do it".

So it was an honest question about what criteria YOU use for choosing a 'legitimate' vs 'illegitimate' holiday.

 

OK, sorry.

A "holiday" must have some authority behind it. For instance, the 4th of July has the US Govt. behind it. Passover has God's word behind it. But many holidays are backed only by tradition. For example, it's very doubtful Jesus was born on Dec. 25, but we traditionally recognize that date as such. Same for Easter. The ACTUAL anniversary of Jesus' resurrection seldom falls on a Sunday, but we traditionally observe it on a Sunday.

I suppose the same can be said about Good Friday But I choose not to observe it for the reasons I stated, but I don't care if others observe it. I respect their right to fast, close their businesses, etc. if they choose.

(BTW, I don't observe any of the RCC thingies at all, such as Lent, Maundy Thursday, Ash Wednesday, palm Sunday, etc.)

 

A sundown to sundown calendar day versus a midnight to midnight calendar day has been mentioned as an issue with regard to determing the day of crucifixion. I don't see what difference it makes. Can someone explain?

 

The Jews reckoned (and still do) a day ending and a new one beginning at sunset. If the sun sets at 6PM somewhere today, the date will become Apr. 1 at 6:01 PM to any Jews present.

I believe Jesus ate the paschal meal after sunset on the 14th of Nisan, & was busted, crucified, & died before the next sunset.

 

Good Friday is built on misunderstanding of Sabbaths

 

Think I'm with atpollard on this one. "All this" includes not only the crucifixion but also the giving over of Jesus by the chief priests and rulers.

Luke 24:20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemned to death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened. ​

If Jesus was given over on Wednesday (starting Tuesday night per Jewish days), then Saturday night would have been the 4th day since these things happened. Doesn't seem to work.

Also, the days starting in the evening is a jewish misunderstanding of the Genesis account, but that's not really applicable here.

All that said, I could be missing something.