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The Nature Of Christ's Resurrection

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Zuno Yazh, Mar 26, 2018.

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  1. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    There lacks a universal consensus regarding the nature of Jesus Christ's resurrection.

    Some believe that his actual crucified body was restored to life.

    Others believe that his crucified body was exchanged for a glorified body.

    Still others believe that Christ's crucified body is still dead, and its remains squirreled away somewhere on earth in a condition and a location known only to God.

    It's also believed by some that Christ didn't come back as a human being at ajj; rather, as a spirit being disguised in a fully functioning human avatar; scars and all.

    This is an issue well worth taking the time and effort to resolve on a world-wide forum because according to Rom 4:25, it's by means of Christ's resurrection that God is at liberty to grant guilty people a full and complete acquittal; i.e. exoneration; which is far and away superior to a pardon. For example:

    Former US President Gerald Ford pardoned former US President Richard Nixon back in 1974 relative to the Watergate scandal. Ford's pardon in no way exonerated Nixon, it only let him off the hook. Though the pardon protected Nixon from prosecution; his crimes didn't go away. In other words: Mr. Nixon will always and forever be on the books of world history as a crook.

    Exoneration-- defined as an adjudication of innocence, which is normally granted when there is insufficient evidence to convict --is much to be preferred over a pardon because exoneration leaves nothing on the books; it wipes people's records so clean and efficiently that there is nothing left that can in any way be used to prove they've ever been anything less than 100% innocent. As a result, there will be nothing on the books down at the end with which to justify condemning them to the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:10-15.

    /
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It was his actual body brought back to life and glorified.

    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
     
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  3. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    In your opinion, which of Christ's two bodies walked out of the tomb: his crucified body or his glorified body?

    /
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Actually there is a consensus among Christians, most are aware that the same body Christ died in is the same body He arose in, howbeit glorified.

    That He is the Firstborn from the dead, the First to rise from the dead never to die again is a basic knowledge. Only among the cults, like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and any number of heretical groups do we see a departure from what is taught in Scripture.


    God bless.
     
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  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    One and the same.
     
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  6. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    "As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!”But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish,and he took it and ate before them." (Luke 24:36-43)

    "Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” (John 20:24-25)

    "Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!” Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written:
    “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”
    The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15)
     
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  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    One mortal body once made alive by oxygenated blood now made alive by the Spirit of God.

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
     
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  8. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    I don't go along with the glorified theory because according to John 2:19-21 his pre-crucified body was predicted to recover. Jesus never once told anybody that he'd come back from death in a supernatural body.

    In addition, according to the Transfiguration scene (Matt 17:1-3, Mark 9:2-3, and Luke 9:28-29) Christ's supernatural body is too bright to look at for very long without eye protection. Had Jesus toured Israel for forty days after his resurrection in that condition, people all over the land would have freaked out; and he would have lit up the sky at night like a beacon. (cf. Rev 21:22-25)

    /
     
    #8 Zuno Yazh, Mar 26, 2018
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  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Then you don't go along with a very basic teaching of the New Testament:


    1 Corinthians 15:42-44
    King James Version (KJV)

    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.



    Colossians 1:18
    King James Version (KJV)

    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.



    There is no question that the body He raised in was the same body He died in:


    Luke 24:36-40
    King James Version (KJV)

    36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

    37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

    38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.



    The disciples were not yet believing that Christ had risen from the dead, and when they saw Him, they thought they were seeing a ghost, because they believed Him to still be dead.

    We see Him verify that it is His Own body here as well...


    John 20:24-28
    King James Version (KJV)

    24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

    25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

    26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

    27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

    28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.




    Nothing in here...


    Matthew 17:1-3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.


    Mark 9 King
    James Version (KJV)

    2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

    3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.


    Luke 9:28-29
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

    29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.



    ...stating what you say. No need for eye protection is needed.

    We see Christ appear to John in Revelation, and no mention of not being able to look at Him.


    Not seen in Scripture. This is a made-up doctrine of a man, you.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    So? He came back in His selfsame body resurrected and immortal.


    Christ is/was able to veil His shekeinah glory, after all He is God come in the flesh.
     
  11. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    The human body of the Lord Jesus Christ, did change after His resurrection, as the Scriptures show that after this time (and not before), He was able to appear and disappear while with His disciples. It was a real body, but a changed one, hence He asked Thomas to feels the nail imprints on His body, to show that it was very real. 1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very informative about how the body changes after resurrection.
     
  12. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    You say, "It's also believed by some that Christ didn't come back as a human being at all; rather, as a spirit being disguised in a fully functioning human avatar; scars and all."

    When Jesus did not want the 2 disciples He was walking with in Luke 24, to recognize Him, He did not put on any "disguise", "But their eyes were kept from recognizing him" (verse 16), through a supernatural act. Then, when He did want them to recognize Him, we are told, "And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight" (verse 31). Note that Jesus was able to vanish "from their sight", because His human body was changed.
     
    #12 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  13. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Can I ask what you own position is on this?
     
  14. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    Christ walked on water, restored withered limbs, cured people born blind, healed serious diseases like leprosy, restored dead bodies to life, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into wine, and levitated.

    What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking through closed doors? Disappearing and reappearing? How hard could any of that really be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

    It's curious how people can say they believe in miracles but yet cannot believe that God has sufficient control over the laws of nature to make a physical human body pass through solid objects.

    /
     
    #14 Zuno Yazh, Mar 26, 2018
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  15. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    You certainly may.

    According to Phil 3:20-21, Christ is currently in possession of a supernatural body. So; if he didn't get that body the day that he rose from the dead; then when?

    The dead bodies of all Christ's believing followers are on track to be revived and taken up to meet The Lord in the air (1Thes 4:14-17). On the way up, the bodies will undergo a sudden, miraculous transformation. (1Cor 15:51-53)

    I think it's pretty safe to assume that Christ's crucified body underwent the very same process while on the way up to heaven as per Acts 1:9 so that today his body is no longer a normal human body; but instead a supernatural human body to which all his believing followers' bodies will one day conform.

    Christ's supernatural body is pretty interesting. I don't know a whole lot about it other than what's written in the 15th chapter of 1Corinthians and of course the transformation depicted in the gospels; but there's a couple of things about it that assure me his body isn't gaseous; i.e. it isn't composed of some sort of mysterious spirit material.

    1• His supernatural body is capable of dining upon ordinary foods and beverages.

    "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God." (Luke 22:15-16)

    "I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." (Matt 26:29)

    "You are those who have stood by me in my trials. And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom." (Luke 22:28-30)

    2• His supernatural body is capable of being seen and recognized by the naked eye.

    "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)

    "Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him." (Rev 1:7)

    /
     
  16. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    If you read 1 Corinthians 15, you will see exactly what the Bible says of the post-resurrection body:

    "The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" (verses 43-44)

    Are you saying that Jesus' human body did not change after His resurrection, but did so only when He ascended to heaven? There is no Scripture for this. What Paul says in the above passage, also applies to the Lord Jesus Christ. His whole argument in this chapter is about the Lord
     
  17. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    According to post #15, I'm already familiar with that chapter of 1Corinnthians.

    The answer to your question is located in post #15.

    /
     
    #17 Zuno Yazh, Mar 26, 2018
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  18. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Why do you deny the testimony of Scripture?

    The Testimony of Jesus Christ?


    God bless.
     
  19. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Scripture is clear that He arose in glorified form.


    Your assumption is wrong.


    Acts 13:33-34
    King James Version (KJV)

    33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.


    His being incorruptible is tied to His Resurrection, not His Ascension.

    Romans 6:9
    King James Version (KJV)

    9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.



    Romans 8:11
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


    Philippians 3:20-21
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.



    Continued...
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    All of this took place prior to His Resurrection.

    They are not relevant to His resurrection body.


    Not always recognized:

    Luke 24:15-16
    King James Version (KJV)

    15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

    16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.



    So what messianic group is it that your are affiliated with?


    God bless.
     
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