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Law/Nt/Legalism/Antinomiam thought/kitchen sink...pt3
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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You know, I've read you reiterate this in many posts but haven't commented until now.
No. Hatred is NOT the 'fountainhead' of all sin, covetousness is. Paul summed up the negative aspect of the law here:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet:
8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of coveting: for apart from the law sin is dead. Ro 7
I find this interesting...Many people say the "First four commandments are Towards God" and the "Next Six are towards man."
Except they do not consider what Paul says...
Colossians 3
5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
(Covetousness is the 10th command--just to be clear
)So, there's that.
Pride is the first and greatest sin, as pride tells to us to be our own god, and reject the real One!I find this interesting...Many people say the "First four commandments are Towards God" and the "Next Six are towards man."
Except they do not consider what Paul says...
Colossians 3
5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
(Covetousness is the 10th command--just to be clear
So, there's that.
Wouldn't you say covetousness was the root man's desire to "Be like God" in the Garden? A Sinful desire, Envying something you cannot Have?
Even Icon's 'heathen' had that correct. Lao Zu from the Tao Te Ching:
"There is no greater sin than desire,
No greater curse than discontent,
No greater misfortune than wanting something for oneself.
Therefore he who knows that enough is enough will always have enough." ..."
Chapter 46, Tao Te Ching (Dao De Jing) by Lao Tzu (Laozi): English Translations, Concordance, Commentaries, Links, Taoism, Summary, Hanyu Pinyin Romanization, Bibliography, Readings
...but Icon's system says that such knowledge is derived from these heathen's (non-Jews) 'partially depravity', never mind that the root of these truths came from what Paul meant by 'Christ in you' concerning those 'heathen' Gentiles (not Jews):
26 even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints,
27to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col 1
Never mind what was intended by Isaiah concerning these 'heathen Gentiles' (non-Jews) when he declared:
,,,and Paul interprets it here concerning all those that have been 'born from above':
26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal 4
Christ spoke of this 'other fold' (non-Jews) here:
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10
...and He began joining the two folds here:
15 And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common. Acts 10
It seems to me that the REFORMED DOGMA does not take into account that 'the Spirit where He willeth doth blow', and that God has always had a people from every nation, tongue and tribe, and still does.
CHAPTER 19; OF THE LAW OF GOD
Paragraph 1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil;1 by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience;2 promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.3
1 Gen. 1:27; Eccles. 7:29
2 Rom. 10:5
3 Gal. 3:10,12
Paragraph 2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall,4 and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
5
4 Rom. 2:14,15
5 Deut. 10:4
Paragraph 3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;6 and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties,7 all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.8
6 Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:17
7 1 Cor. 5:7
8 Col. 2:14,16,17; Eph. 2:14,16
of good and evil;1 by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience;2 promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.3
1 Gen. 1:27; Eccles. 7:29
2 Rom. 10:5
3 Gal. 3:10,12
Paragraph 2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall,4 and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.5
4 Rom. 2:14,15
5 Deut. 10:4
Paragraph 3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;6 and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties,7 all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.8
6 Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:17
7 1 Cor. 5:7
8 Col. 2:14,16,17; Eph. 2:14,16
fied or condemned,13 yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin;14 together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise show them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.15
13 Rom. 6:14; Gal. 2:16; Rom. 8:1, 10:4
14 Rom. 3:20, 7:7, etc.
15 Rom. 6:12-14; 1 Pet. 3:8-13
Paragraph 7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it,16 the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.17
16 Gal. 3:21
17 Ezek. 36:27
Hey JesusFan/Dechaser1/Yeshua1; do you have scripture that states that?
Or is it just more of your knee jerk babel?
A Commentary of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws. When the Confession states “besides this law,” “this law” refers to the one moral law: the moral law given to Adam and codified in the Ten Commandments. In addition, then, to that moral law, God was pleased to give Israel ceremonial laws. These ceremonial laws were not given to all mankind to obey, but only to Israel.
The Confession continues: containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. The ceremonial laws are by nature typical, meaning they are types.” A “type” in Scripture is something that has its own significance in its own right, and yet points toward something (usually in the future) that has a greater significance. It is “like” it, but it is not it, and it is not as important. “These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ” (Col. 2:17 ESV). Ordinances are things formally prescribed by God to be carried out regularly. Of these ceremonial laws which contain typical ordinances, there are two kinds: 1) Those dealing with worship, and 2) those which give instructions. Of the ceremonial laws that deal with worship, they prefigure Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefit. Of the ceremonial laws which give instructions, these typify higher moral duties.
The typical ordinances of worship prefigure Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits. Hebrews 10: 1 states: “For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near” (ESV). These prefigured Christ, that is, they herald or suggest a greater reality to come to be found in Christ himself. These also prefigure Christ’s graces, actions, and suffering. They prefigure his benefits as well. Some of the prefiguring is clearer than others—but we can now look back through Christ and see what the ceremonial laws point toward. Before Christ they were mere shadows, but in Christ the shadows were filled with light.
Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws. When the Confession states “besides this law,” “this law” refers to the one moral law: the moral law given to Adam and codified in the Ten Commandments. In addition, then, to that moral law, God was pleased to give Israel ceremonial laws. These ceremonial laws were not given to all mankind to obey, but only to Israel.
The Confession continues: containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. The ceremonial laws are by nature typical, meaning they are types.” A “type” in Scripture is something that has its own significance in its own right, and yet points toward something (usually in the future) that has a greater significance. It is “like” it, but it is not it, and it is not as important. “These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ” (Col. 2:17 ESV). Ordinances are things formally prescribed by God to be carried out regularly. Of these ceremonial laws which contain typical ordinances, there are two kinds: 1) Those dealing with worship, and 2) those which give instructions. Of the ceremonial laws that deal with worship, they prefigure Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefit. Of the ceremonial laws which give instructions, these typify higher moral duties.
The typical ordinances of worship prefigure Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits. Hebrews 10: 1 states: “For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near” (ESV). These prefigured Christ, that is, they herald or suggest a greater reality to come to be found in Christ himself. These also prefigure Christ’s graces, actions, and suffering. They prefigure his benefits as well. Some of the prefiguring is clearer than others—but we can now look back through Christ and see what the ceremonial laws point toward. Before Christ they were mere shadows, but in Christ the shadows were filled with light.
A Commentary of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
Since ceremonial laws are merely types pointing to a greater substance, we can conclude that they had only have a temporary function; once the substance of what they represent arrives, they no longer need to function in the life of the church for the New Testament saints. Thus the Confession states the following: All which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away. The phrase “the time of reformation” comes directly from Scripture itself: “The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation” (Hebrews 9:8-10 KJV). Thus “the time of reformation” refers to the time that Christ would come and by his work fulfill the types and foreshadows of the ceremonial law, and by fulfilling them he abrogated them. Jesus Christ, as the only lawgiver, has the authority to bring this reformation. Further, since “the substance belongs to Christ” (Col. 2:17 ESV), he is the rightful and only one to bring such reformation. The Confession states: Jesus Christ was furnished with power from the Father for that end. He was furnished with power—for the very purpose of bringing the reform. We learned in chapter 8:3b that, “in whom it pleased the Father that all fullness should dwell, to the end that being holy, harmless, undefiled, and full of grace ad truth, he might be thoroughly furnished to execute the office of a mediator and surety.” To be furnished with power means to be fully empowered, equipped, and authorized to carry out one’s office.
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Numerous places. You could start with Deuteronomy 5:22 and then maybe go to Hosea 6:6, quoted by our Lord in Matthew 9:13. But there are many others. I seem to recall having listen a few on another thread on this subject.
Yeshua1 said:
So you have no one like this in your church?1689Dave said:
'Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and in His law he meditates day and night.'
Perhaps you should change churches.
This thread is closed.
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