Featured Messianic Jews and the law.

Interesting site you posted.
It appears that Messianic Jews perceive a certain type of separation between Israel and the Church.
Would Messianic Jews be predominantly dispensational in their theology?

Rob

 

The handful who I know personally sure seem to be.

 

From the link -

I suggest that the thinking here is treating (Messianic) Judaism & Christianity as religions rather than as a personal & living faith in Jesus as LORD, God & Saviour.

 

When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, after that generation of Jews died off there was nothing left to make one a Biblical Jew so all became gentiles by default. It was circumcision that made one a Jew, not birth.

The reason being, even those born of Isaac had to be circumcised or expelled from Israel. Since Christ removed circumcision it produces the same effect as not being circumcised. This resulted in being considered a gentile.

 

There is a group which calls itself "messianic" but is not a true messianic Christian group.
They go by the name "Hebraic Roots" (HR) and are an offshoot of Armstrongism.

They try to give the impression they are Christian but they are non-Trinitarian and deny the deity of Christ.

I could not find Trinitarian support at the site you gave under "beliefs".

 

Believers throughout the world worship our Lord in a wide variety of ways.
Messianic Jews worship Jesus in a way that differs from traditional Baptist liturgy.
There are a number of commands for the descendants of Abraham to perform for all generations. Many of these involved remembrances of God’s acts of faithfulness to the Hebrews.

Keeping the law of Moses did not save anyone.
A case can be made that the OT Jews knew this; the Hebrew Scriptures, the later prophets in particular, make a strong case for salvation by faith in YHWH and not the bloodly ritualistic sacrifice of animals.
Messianic Jews worship out of tradition. It is their practice rather than their obligation.
They do not gain salvation by doing so. They, just as we, are saved by faith alone.
But they gain favor for their faithfulness and obedience... just as we too gain favor by our faithfulness and obedience.

Rob

 

It is impossible to keep the Torah (So where do I take my two doves?) and the Torah is clear that every part must be obeyed.

As I am an Italian-American Christian with traditions that include lasagna on December 25 and corned beef and cabbage on March 17, they can be Jewish-American Christians with different ethnic traditions. However, the Torah cannot be kept. God saw to that in AD 70.

 

So you’re saying that since they can’t keep it all they shouldn’t try to keep any of it?

If the Lord told them to keep various traditions to all generations, and they can, then perhaps they should.

Rob

 

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

There are 613 mitzvouth-מִצְוָה (commandments) as has already been mention the Roman general Titus came, sacked and plundered Jerusalem in AD70-72.

He tore down the temple, murdered the priests. it is therefore impossible to keep the 613 commands as about 200 of them require a functioning temple and identifiable priesthood.

Folks who put themselves under this decapitated law (Torah) receive a curse.

there is only ONE WAY.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

read Acts chapter 15 - certain pharisees who believed wanted to keep the law.

Peter tells them
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
...
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

In this age we are led of the Spirit not the law of Moses.

 

Hank, you missed the point of the article.
The Messianic Jews are believers in Yeshua.
They have trusted in him to gain the salvation of their souls.

Reading from the article, they believe as ethnic Jews they have an obligation, separate from gentiles, to worship differently. To fulfill their Jewish heritage as a people of God’s first choosing.

It is not a burden to worship but a privilege, an honor.
They are not following the law toward salvation but in worship.
Isn’t that the intent Jesus had in mind when he spoke of fulfilling the law in Matthew 5:17ff?

The law still has a purpose in the age, it points us ever closer towards our need for Jesus.
To the Jew it is a additional way to worship the Master who delivered them from the bondage of slavery to sin.

Rob

 

Yes but I was warning of the pretenders who have crept in who do not recognize "Yeshua" as being God come in the flesh.
That kind of "Yeshua" cannot save anyone.

There is no difference between Jew or Gentile in this age.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus
Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

The law cannot be kept - there is no Hebrew temple, no identifiable levitical priesthood.
The codified law remaining in the Torah only condemns us. That is its purpose.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

BTW I have a Jewish heritage on my mother's side and feel no compulsion whatsoever to do the mosaic requirements of the Torah.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now if a born again Christian who is of Jewish heritage (or even a gentile) wants to celebrate the Jewish feast days - OK but its not a requirement and it doesn't make them or anyone else different or special.

 

Once again these verse are dealing with salvation.
That is not why Messianic Jews worship as they do.
Messianic Jews identify as Jews. As Jews they take God's commands seriously.

“This day is to be a memorial for you, and you must celebrate it as a festival to the Lord. You are to celebrate it throughout your generations as a permanent statute.” (Exodus 12:14, CSB)

“You are to observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread because on this very day I brought your military divisions out of the land of Egypt. You must observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent statute.” (Exodus 12:17, CSB)

“Keep this command permanently as a statute for you and your descendants.” (Exodus 12:24, CSB)

“The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.” (Exodus 31:16, CSB)​

Through name and via DNA a priestly line an be identified. They worship as Jews without a Temple building have throughout the centuries.

again, they worship God in obedience, this is not a salvation issue. They, like us are covered by the grace of God obtained through the sacrificial blood of the Messiah.

Each of us is free to worship God in the way that we desire.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying BUT obedience to God does make one special.

Rob

 

OK we agree.

Beware the Judaizers of the group called Hebrew Roots (HR).

They pretend to be messianic Jews.

They are a strange offshoot of the Garner Ted Armstrong cult.

They deny the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

 

I understood Jewish synagogue worship to be the pattern for Christian worship - singing Psalms, praying, reading & expounding the Scriptures. Other congregational activities would include tithes & offerings & Passover.
In many Christian denominations, infant baptism replaces circumcision, so generating "Christian" families & a supposed "Christian" community.
The memorial feasts are now superceded by Communion.

What I do not see in the Old Covenant is an equivalent to baptism of believers - the "various baptisms" of Heb. 9:10 include the examples of the "red heifer" ritual (Num. 19) & the sprinkling of the "blood of the Covenant" (Exo. 24)

Heb. 9: 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings/baptisms – external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, so obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!​

 

What do you think about any of the requirements for immersion in Leviticus 15:11-14 ?

 

I think the key word in your statement is "obligation". No, no obligation. Peter's vision in Acts chapter 10 -- though directed at a higher point -- demonstrates a change in the dietary law. Galatians 2:11-14 shows that Peter followed this change and ate with the Gentiles, and Paul challenged him as wrong when he equivocated on the practice.

Both Peter and Paul were technically "Messianic Jews," but ultimately we all are no longer Jew or Gentile but rather a third entity, the church of God (cf. 1 Corinthians 10:32).

 

All of those festivals, ceremonies, and sacrifices pointed to Jesus, so no longer obligated to keep them, as there were but the shadow, and he was the substance!

 

Just as the Northern Kingdom was CURSED for doing.

The Law is very clear and modern Jews are violating it.
Jesus is very clear, He came to fulfill the Law.
Paul is very clear, there is no Jew or Gentile in the Body of Christ, we are all free from the curse of the Law.

Unless one is prepared to rewrite the NT, this issue is not ambiguous.
Now if they want to have lamb and bitter herbs for supper once a year or burn candles in December (which isn't even an OT holiday), there is nothing stopping any Christian (former Jew or Gentile) from doing so. However it is NOT required and there is no special merit (just like celebrating Easter and Christmas).