Being slain in the Spirit?

This is just my point. I do not limit the ways God deals with His people...I am one of them. Being "slain" is not a universal "churchwide" phenomenon, just a pentecostal one. It is the pentecostals who "limit" God to only their denominations who get "slain". This is why I do not feel this is of the Lord. I believe satan or a demon can give a person a "shove" and knock them down. Look what God allowed satan to do to Job...

 

Biblical faith is not blind, unlike your mysical experiences which cannot be validated. My faith rests upon the empirical validated evidence of the resurrection of Jesus Christ--one of the most historically attested facts in all of history. Your mystical experience lies in the realm of the meta-physical with no demonstrable evidence to prove its veracity. It takes blind faith.
"I cannot prove I am sitting in Canada." Surely you jest. Will approximately one million witnesses from my own city do? How about the witness of my own eyes and other senses, not just from where I sit but when I fly over the city and see it from a different perspective? What about going down to the library and digging out the surveyor's map and find out the exact coordinates of the city, and then compare that with the lot on the deed of my land registered at city hall? I have empirical evidence contrary to a metaphysical experience which is simply mysticism.
I don't argue from a philosopher's point of view (a vain man's imagination), but scientifically and Biblically.
You either believe by faith or you don't. That goes with most things in life. I believe by faith that when I put my key in my ignition, that my car will start. It is trust, or confidence. 99% of the time it will start. If it fails it doesn't mean my faith is weak; it means my car was made by man who makes mistakes and fallible cars which are subject to the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. However I can put my faith in God's Word, and God who is immutable and perfect, never makes mistakes and always keeps his word. He never fails. But the faith is confidence, and it is based on facts. The facts are in His Word. His Word does not support "slain in the spirit." It takes blind faith to believe in a doctrine like that. It takes blind faith to believe that your experience was Scriptural. It is not based on fact. Biblical faith is always based on fact.
DHK

 

webdog,

You said, 'This is just my point. I do not limit the ways God deals with His people...I am one of them. Being "slain" is not a universal "churchwide" phenomenon, just a pentecostal one.'

.

 

This will probably confuse you, DHK.

If a person does not have a mystical relationship to Christ he or she is not saved.

Just believing a set of rule of the church or even doctrines of the Christian Church does not promise everlasting life.

Our faith trust in Christ must be real and thus connect us to God so we are one with Him [I Corinthians 6:17].

Saul/Paul and the Apostle John had this experience of falling under the power of the Holy Spirit. I do not think all of the apostles had this experience although the writers of the N.T. do not say they did experience this.

 

Because one "experiences" something, regardless of denomination, does not prove it is from God. If this was indeed an act of the Holy Spirit, it would not be a main staple of the pentecostal movement, while an individual occurence happens in other denominations here and there. Satan's influence can be known in many churches. If you crack open the door even a little, he will bust it wide open. I think this is true in many denominations.

 

I am not confused. Perhaps you are, and perhaps you need to take heed to:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Note the definition of mystical:

I know nothing of your salvation.
But I do know that my salvation is based on gospel--the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I do know that there is nothing mystical about the gospel. Those are cold hard facts. It was a brutal death that Christ suffered on the cross, suffering as he did, shedding his blood, paying the penalty for our sins, a penalty that we could never pay. He then was buried in someone else's tomb, and after three days rose from the dead. He was seen of over 500 witnesses. I believe in the message of the gospel. It is because of that message that I am saved today.

Now compare that what you say you believe:
Your salvation is based on: an experience having spiritual meaning or reality that is neither apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence. (i.e., mystical)

You are right: God demands regeneration; not reformation, nor legalism.

Real doesn't necessarily mean mystical.

What Holy Spirit? Saul fell off his horse when he was blinded by a great shining light. If I was blind riding a horse I would fall off it too. That has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.
Concerning John,
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
--Again, there is no mention of the Holy Spirit, only fear. He fell prostrated before Christ out of fear. But Christ reassured him: "Fear not."

None of the Apostles describe the unbliblical experience of being slain in the spirit. I suppose Annanias and Sapphira were slain in the Spirit. That is about as close as one can come to it.
DHK

 

webdog,

I could go along with you ideas above, except many of the most noble Christians I know have experienced this special prayer language.

The Lord does not allow demons to enter those who are genuinely born again of the Spirit of God.

Go and think. Just because you have not experienced all that is available in the Lord, don't step on Divine truth coming from the Word of God.

It is dangerous to do this, I believe.

 

The symptoms of demon oppression (possible for a Christian) and demon possession are very similar.

 

DHK,

.

DHK said, 'The symptoms of demon oppression (possible for a Christian) and demon possession are very similar.'

 

I don't believe being "slain" is actually a demon entering a true believer. I believe a demon or satan can physically influence, even kill a true believer if God so allows. Job was struck with awful boils that God allowed satan to put upon Job. God said satan could do anything to him...except kill him. Satan physically affected Job, much in the same manner I believe he affects those who are "slain". This can be true with being "slain". If one wants to experience it, even if it's not of the Lord, I believe the Lord will grant it in certain instances.

My cousin is a believer. He went to an AOG church with his friend once. He went up to the front to be "slain", because he wanted to experience the Holy Spirit the same way his friend had. While he did fall under the influence of it, he was afraid because he said he felt paralyzed. While he admit it didnt' hurt, and actually felt relaxed, he didn't feel comfortable...but not in control and confused. The Bible says plainly that God is not the author of confusion...and saten can appear as an "angel of light". I think it's a scary thing to constantly subject yourself to something the Scriptures do not even teach as biblical.

[ January 30, 2006, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: webdog ]

 

Ray, one more thing. We are told to resist the devil and he will flee from us. If being "slain" is indeed something not of God, nobody is "resisting", and they open themselves up to the "experience" even if it's not from God.

 

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

 

Understanding the Bible is not a philosophical endeavor nor is God to be viewed through they minds of men like Socrates or Aristotle.

The Word of God was written so that the average Christian with the aid of the Spirit of God can understand its meaning.

I Corinthians 12 & 14 and the Acts of the Apostles are not encoded information.

Read the Word, accept what God has said, and believe it with all of your inner being. Start with the Lord and you will end with the Lord's message to your life.

When we begin with the theories of well intentioned people and scholars we conclude and form in our minds and hearts error. And what is worse than this is to spread that error to other new Christians.

Dr. Berrian

 

So does that mean you agree or disagree with what Bible-boy has stated? Or do you just want to beat around the bush?

 

Bible-boy,

Yes.

 

Bible-boy,

Let's look at Revelation 1:9-18 first. The Apostle John was in a special state of being, because he says 'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.' He is speaking of a state of being other than being indwelled by the Spirit as all Christians experience. It could be he was in a trance as Peter experienced [Acts 10:10]or perhaps a vision that the Lord gave to John the Apostle.

I do not think that any one would deny that John was saved long before this spiritual experience happened in his life.

Moreover, I do not think that John selected the timing of this spiritual experience of being given his special revelation from the Lord, meaning the Book of Revelation. I believe it was also important that John had this pure view as to the supernatural Lord that he saw and believed in Him as Savior and Lord years before this experience.

In verse 17 John said when I saw the Lord I 'fell' as dead at His feet. Dr. A.T. Robertson, and as you know he was a Baptist Greek scholar says the word 'pipto' meaning to fall is in the aorist active indicative tense.

John did not merely fall and immediately get up when the Lord laid His right hand on his (shoulder) saying, 'Fear not! I am the first and the last.' The Greek tense indicates a definite beginning time of action with a continuing action.
After a period of time, John revived from this spiritual experience realizing that the Lord had overpowered him with His powerful Presence. Dr. Robertson says, 'Under the overpowering influence of the vision as in 19:10. The Lord 'laid' {etheken}; again the same verb tense is used indicating a period of time elapsed before John came out of this Holy Spirit event in his life. Eventually John revived from this spiritual experience and he wrote down what the Lord had shown him in this spiritual trance.

In my Greek N.T. John says, 'I fell at his feet as dead.' The words, 'I fell' is the Greek word, (epesa) which is in the aorist active indicative tense. This does not mean that John bowed in adoration and then immediately got up on his feet. The Greek tense always means a distinct time of beginning with continued action into the future. This being said, because John was in the Spirit--in this unique way he fell out under the power and protection of the Holy Spirit and after his vision/trance he got up and wrote the manuscript of Revelation.

If I recall correctly, theologians think after the death of the Roman Emperor John returned to the church at Ephesis until he died of natural causes.

As to the words, 'I fell' the Greek verb tense is taken from "The Analytical Lexicon to the Greek N.T., "Zondervan Publishing House," The author is Dr. William D. Mounce on page 201 --in the right column.

What the Holy Spirit ministered to John, of old, He countinues to reveal Himself to some Christians in our times. Perhaps a label is not as important as agreeing that the Lord still ministers His mighty power on some of His people, as He sees fit.