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Theotokos? or TheoNOTokos! - Sedi Sapientiae? or Sedi SERPENTiae! - Roman Raiders of the Ark

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 8, 2018.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Theotokos? or TheoNOTokos! - Sedi Sapientiae? or Sedi SERPENTiae! - Roman Raiders of the Ark

    Roman Catholicism's theology teaches that the Roman Catholic "Mary' is "theotokos", the "Sedi Sapientiae" and the "new Ark" of the New Testament:
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    Let's begin with Mary and this Roman Catholic idea of 'theotokos' and compare it to scripture:
     
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  2. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    "Mother of Jesus", or a 'theotokos'???

    Let us take a look at the scriptural (KJB) “Mary” [Matthew 1:16,18,20, 2:11, 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:27,30,34,38,39,41,46,56, 2:5,16,19,34; Acts 1:14], “the mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14; see also “his mother” - Matthew 1:18, 2:11; Luke 2:34,43; John 19:25; and “mother” - also John 6:42] who was “espoused to Joseph”.

    We are going to look at the scriptures in what they themselves have to say about her and what they do not say about her, for there is at this time a persistent theology which pervades much of the Christian world which claims to have support [from the Bible] for an idea that has been defined and termed as: “theotokos” [literally “God-Bearer”, or “one who gives birth to God” and/or also loosely given as “Mother of God”; being a “title”].

    Let us look very closely at the scriptures to see if this “title” is accurate or is instead dangerous.

    The first question that should be asked is this, “Is the “title” “theotokos” ever itself given anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back to us as a plain, “No.” Though not convincing in and of itself, let us remember this “silence” and come back to this point later.

    The next question that should be asked is this, “Is Mary ever called by the appellation or designated with the title of “Mother of God” [“God” being the English for the Greek [Tr.] word “Theos”] anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back as before to us as a plain, “No.” Again not convincing in and of itself, but let us again remember also this “silence” and come back to this point later.

    Let us now consider a few statements by the Roman Catholic theological position and teaching on this subject of the “theotokos”, for it is said that:

    "… Elizabeth is the first to call Mary by her most honourable title "Mother of God …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “The Visitation”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
    It is taught by outward (catechumen) Catholicism that she is not the 'mother of divinity' (well and good), yet there is more said inwardly by the dogma, with hints all over the place at something more, and even openly stated with more:

    "… As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. … Theotokos …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “Mary's divine motherhood”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
    Let us look at the first quote again and ask yet another question. “Did Elizabeth [the cousin of Mary] ever call Mary by the “title” “Mother of God” in any part of the Scriptures?” Search as we will yet again, and the answer yet comes back to us as a plain, “No.”

    Where then does the Roman Catholic theological position obtain the slightest ground from Scripture to say that Elizabeth says such?

    Luke 1:43 is quoted, so we had better be careful to look at it:

    Luke 1:43 KJB - And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    Luke 1:43 GNT TR - και ποθεν μοι τουτο ινα ελθη η μητηρ του κυριου μου προς με

    Luke 1:43 Stephen's 1550 TR kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me

    Luke 1:43 Byzantine Majority TR - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me

    Luke 1:43 Alexandrian Greek - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV eme

    Luke 1:43 Douay Rheims - And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
    [Douay Rheims Online Bible THE HOLY BIBLE; TRANSLATED FROM THE LATIN VULGATE; DILIGENTLY COMPARED WITH THE HEBREW, GREEK, AND OTHER EDITIONS IN DIVERS LANGUAGES; THE OLD TESTAMENT FIRST PUBLISHED BY THE ENGLISH COLLEGE AT DOUAY, A. D. 1609; THE NEW TESTAMENT FIRST PUBLISHED BY THE ENGLISH COLLEGE AT RHEIMS, A. D. 1582 WITH ANNOTATIONS, REFERENCES, AND AN HISTORICAL AND CHRONOLOGICAL TABLE PUBLISHED WITH THE APPROBATION OF HIS EMINENCE JAMES CARDINAL GIBBONS ARCHBISHOP OF BALTIMORE; PUBLISHED WITH THE APPROBATION OF HIS EMINENCE JOHN CARDINAL FARLEY ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK; PUBLISHED WITH THE APPROBATION OF HIS EMINENCE WILLIAM CARDINAL O'CONNELL ARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON; NEW YORK; P. J. KENEDY & SONS; PRINTERS TO THE HOLY SEE; MCMXIV ] - https://web.archive.org/web/20120615073750/http://www.veritasbible.com//drb
    Luke 1:43 Clementine Vulgate - Et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me?
    [Clementine Latin Vulgate Online BIBLIA SACRA; VULGATÆ EDITIONIS; SIXTI V PONT. MAX. ;IUSSU RECOGNITA ET CLEMENTIS VIII; AUCTORITATE EDITA; EX TRIBUS EDITIONIBUS CLEMENTINIS CRITICE DESCRIPSIT, DISPOSITIONIBUS LOGICIS ET NOTIS EXEGETICIS ILLUSTRAVIT, APPENDICE LECTIONUM HEBRAICARUM ER GRÆCARUM AUXIT; P. MICHAEL HETZENAUER ORD. MIN. CAP. PROFESSOR EXEGESIS IN UNIVERSITATE PONTIFICII SEMINARII ROMANI; IMPRIMATUR; FR. ALBERTUS LEPIDI O.P., SACRI PALATII APOSTOLICI MAGISTER; IMPRIMATUR; FRANCISCUS FABERI, VICARIATUS URBIS ADSESSOR; RATISBONÆ ET ROMÆ; SUMPTIBUS ET TYPIS FRIDERICI PUSTET S. SEDIS APOSTOLICÆ ET S. RITUUM CONGR. TYPOGRAPHI NEO EBORACI ET CINCINNATI: APUD FR. PUSTET & Cᴼ.; MCMXIV ] - https://web.archive.org/web/20121014055422/http://www.veritasbible.com/lvb

    Does the text read from the English or Tr. Greek that Mary was designated with the “title” “Mother of God” by Elizabeth? [Remember, we are looking for the words “mhthr tou theou mou” [Theos/God].]

    The text obviously does not read the way it is claimed [intimated] that it does, for it plainly reads, “...mhthr tou kuriou mou...” [“...mother of my Lord...”]. This passage is supposed to be the strongest support pillar upholding the “theotokos” theological position, yet the pillar is non-existent, as is the word “theou”.

    Since “The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.” [Psalms 12:6] and “All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” [2 Timothy 3:16] and “...the scripture cannot be broken...” [John 10:35;p] and we are admonished to “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” [Proverbs 30:6], it then behooves us to take special and careful attention to then heed what the words plainly say without having to add anything to them.
     
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  3. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    As we have seen by the Scriptures, Mary is called the “mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14] but never once designated with the “title” “mother of God”.

    Titles carry weight. For instance, Jesus is called “the Son of Man” and “the Son of God”, among many others, and in scripture these “titles” relate something extremely important. Jesus has two natures, first, that of “God” being unborrowed, underived and having eternal life with Himself, as the Scripture says of His Divinity, “... without mother ...” [Hebrews 7:3;p]; “...from everlasting...” [Micah 5:2;p etc] even “...to everlasting...” [Psalms 90:2;p etc] and also eternally existing with the “Father” [ref: John 1:1, 17:5] and “Holy Spirit” before all things. Secondly, at the moment of His incarnation and from then on, eternally, that of “man”.

    To give the title “mother of God” to Mary is unbiblical, and she herself would have never have wanted it, being the humble handmaiden and servant of God. Many women, who believed in scripture, were blessed (Genesis 1:22, etc).

    Some may quote:

    Luke 11:27 KJB - And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.​

    However, what did Jesus say in reply to this?

    He says, “yea rather...” and drew everyone's attention to the “word of God” instead and that they should “keep it”:

    Luke 11:28 KJB - But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

    Jesus just shut down all exaltation of Mary, and exalted the word of God, as prophesied He would:

    Psalms 138:2 KJB - I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
    Jesus never sought to draw anyone's attention to Mary, but rather to Himself:

    Isaiah 45:22 KJB - Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

    Psalms 98:3 KJB - He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

    John 12:32 KJB - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.​

    The Aleph & Tau (Alpha and Omega) of Genesis 1:1, the Vau, Aleph Tau that is suspended between the heavens and earth:

    Genesis 1:1 HOT - בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃

    Genesis 1:1 HOT Translit. - B'rëshiyt Bärä élohiym ët haSHämayim w'ët hääretz

    Jesus also later directly asks so that there was no confusion regarding His mission, "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?" (Matthew 12:48; Mark 3:33)

    Jesus tells us the answer to the question, "And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!" (Matthew 12:49; Mark 3:34)​

    What does even the Angel Gabriel say in the Gospel of Luke?

    Gabriel says of Mary, "... Mary: for thou hast found favour with God." (Luke 1:30) [many have found favour with God, for He is gracious, merciful, loving]

    Gabriel says of Jesus, "...holy thing..." (Luke 1:35) (Compare Acts 4:27,30, "Holy Child Jesus")

    What does Mary herself say?

    Mary says of herself: "...Behold the handmaid of the Lord..." (Luke 1:38)

    (""handmaid", "doulē", "δούλη", female -
    servant, slave, bondmaid, hadmaid" (Strong's Concordance)),​

    "...My soul doth magnify the Lord..."
    (Luke 1:46) and "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden..." (Luke 1:48)

    ("low estate", "tapeinōsis", "ταπείνωσις", lowness, low estate, spiritual abasement, lamenting of moral littleness and guilt (Strong's Concordance))

    Notice, of “moral littleness and guilt”.

    What does Mary say of God, "...he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy (is) his name." (Luke 1:48).

    1. We see that it is God who is great (Luke 1:32), not Mary.
    2. We see that it is He that has accomplished (Luke 1:35, 'power of the Highest'), not Mary.
    3. We see that it is God/Jesus that is Holy (Luke 1:35,48, 'that holy thing'; 'holy (is) his name'), not Mary.
    4. We see that it is God that is magnified (Luke 1:46; 'My soul doth magnify the Lord'), not Mary.
    5. We see that it is God who is exalted (Luke 1:32-33; 'of his kingdom there shall be no end'), and not Mary.​

    Mary declares her low position while glorifying God in all things. Not once is she designated, 'mother of God' and not once is she called 'Holy Mary', but rather it is Christ Jesus, God the Father, Holy Ghost who are all explicitly called "Holy".

    Mary specifically says that Jesus Christ is her 'Saviour', which means she was a sinner in need of salvation like everyone else:

    "...my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." (Luke 1:47) and we see that this is in the very context of her “moral littleness and guilt” [vs 48].
     
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  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Let us continue further still. For we shall see that the so-called (Hyper Dulia) 'veneration' of Mary is usurping the worship of God:

    It is written of Jesus:

    "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]

    that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]

    and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]

    born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],

    where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:

    "... lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]

    "… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]

    "... the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]

    "... For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]

    "… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]

    "… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]

    "… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]

    "The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]

    "… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]

    "… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]

    "... lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]

    "... this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]

    "… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]

    "Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?" [John 8:46]

    "... I have kept my Father's commandments ..." [John 15:10]

    "... I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]

    "... I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]

    "... I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]

    "... the obedience of one ..." [Romans 5:19]

    "... who knew no sin ..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

    "... without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]

    "... [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners ..." [Hebrews 7:26]

    "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]

    "... in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]

    "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God ..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]​

    Nowhere is any of that which was cited said about Mary and she herself acknowledged her low estate [vs 47-48] before God. It is written of all others of mankind:

    Romans 3:23 KJB - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Psalms 14:3 KJB - They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Psalms 53:3 KJB - Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Romans 3:10 KJB - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    Romans 3:12 KJB - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.​

    Mary, herself along with the 'brothers of Jesus' (elder sons/daughters of Joseph, from a previous marriage (*scripture evidence upon request), who did not yet believe in him, 'For neither did his brethren believe in him.' - John 7:5) came to Him because they heard from others that Jesus was not in His right mind and was possessed of devils:

    Mark 3:21 KJB - And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

    Mark 3:30 KJB - Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

    Mark 3:31 KJB - There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.​

    While Mary was blessed of God and found favour (grace) in His eyes, she was not sinless, and she also made mistakes such as leaving the child Jesus behind in Jerusalem, she had lost sight of Him and assumed Him to be where He was not (Luke 2:41-52).

    And she, herself did not understand all that Jesus had said ('And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.' Luke 2:50) and she wonders at the shepherd's news (Luke 2:18-19) and also marvelled at the news of Simeon and Anna; 'his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him' - Luke 2:33).

    Anna the prophetess, "...spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem." - Luke 2:38 and this would include Mary who went up to Jerusalem to present the child Jesus, who was the Saviour that was looked for since the fall and in Genesis 3:15 to come from the promise of God (Matthew 1:21).

    If anything, Luke's Gospel reveals that Mary, though a follower of God, was not faultless nor sinless and most definitely needed a Saviour from her own sins.
     
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  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Another point, in that Mary did not ever-remain a virgin, for she also had to be purified after the birth of Jesus ('...when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished..." - Luke 2:22; Leviticus 12:2-6), and the marriage to Joseph eventually was consumated, which is the right of the married.

    See Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Mark 10:7 and Joseph was to eventually 'perform the duty of the husband' (see Matthew 1:25).

    The marriage bed is not defiled by such, for it is in the will of God ('Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:...' - Hebrews 13:4).

    A question we could ask, “Should she be deprived of the joy of her husband Joseph whom she had been espoused to before she had ever known of that which was to come about?”

    Mary herself was born as every human is born, the lineage of Luke 3:22-38 and Matthew 1:1-16 reveals this. Thus she had the likeness of the fallen sinful flesh as all mankind have after the fall of Adam.

    Jesus was also made of a woman, made under the law, with our very nature, our flesh, the likeness of sinful fallen flesh ('son of David'; 'seed of Abraham', Hebrews 2:14; 1 John 4:2-3; 2 John 1:7, 'who was in all points tempted like as we' - Hebrews 4:15):

    Hebrews 2:16 KJB - For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.​

    The question then is, what kind of nature do unfallen [ooops, I gave it away] Heavenly Angels have, as opposed to every child of fallen Adam, and since Jesus did not take on that nature of Heavenly angels, that only leaves the other.

    Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;​

    If it were not so, Jesus could never have "condemned sin in the flesh", being His flesh that He took upon Himself.

    Romans 8:3 KJB - For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [for "likeness" see Philippians 2:7; Romans 6:5]​

    It really is simple, eh?

    1 Peter 4:1 KJB - Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

    Hebrews 2:17 KJB - Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    Galatians 4:4 KJB - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    Romans 5:19 KJB - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.​

    The so-called Evangelical 'gospel' is no Gospel at all when compared to the infinite value of the True and Everlasting Gospel...
     
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  6. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH

    The lineage of Jesus given in both Matthew [Matthew 1:1-18; "son of David, the son of Abraham"] and Luke [Luke 3:23-38; "[son of] Adam", etc] is easily seen in the lives and history of Jesus' ancestors, of which He Himself inherited of their fleshly nature when He was made of a woman.

    Jesus has for flesh and blood ancestors, murderers, thieves, harlots, idolators, etc, but none of that makes Him as such [a sinner], but He did and does inherit the flesh and blood, fallen flesh nature, like as we. For He was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin, and His temptations were far greater [not less].

    How many sons of Adam were born from Adam after His sin? All of them, including all of us here, and also Jesus, being born of Mary [Matthew 1:16], who was of the line, the seed according to the flesh, of David.

    David acknowledges his heritage in the Psalms, and Jesus is called the "son of David", and also the "son of Abraham".

    Did they have sinful flesh? Were they born after Adam's fall? Yes.

    To be born with sinful flesh is not to be born with the guilt of sin/transgression. The scripture teaches that to [commit] sin [of comission or omission] is to be a transgressor [of the Law; 1 John 3:4], not simply being born with sinful flesh.

    If all will go with me to other scriptures please, where it describes this "flesh" [sarx]:

    "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us..." [John 1:14]

    "God manifest in the flesh" [1 Timothy 3:16],

    "the LORD from Heaven" [1 Corinthians 15:47],

    "made of a woman, made under the law" [Galatians 4:4],

    "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" [Romans 1:3],

    "... to every seed his own body ..." [1 Corinthians 15:38],

    "... of the fruit of his [David's] loins, according to the flesh ..." [Acts 2:30]

    of the "seed of Abraham" [Hebrews 2:16],

    even "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same" [Hebrews 2:14] [what flesh are we born with, that He partook of then, what blood?]

    and "in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren" [Hebrews 2:17],

    that we might have "...known Christ after the flesh..." [2 Corinthians 5:16], and scripture giving us the family line and genealogy of that very flesh [sarx] and blood nature He took upon Himself [Matthew 1:1-25; Luke 3:23-38]

    the "[the son] of Adam" [Luke 3:38]

    as it is said, "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" [Philippians 2:7],

    and "...in the days of His flesh..." [Hebrews 5:7],

    "was in all points tempted like as [we are yet] without sin" [Hebrews 4:15],

    and in His death it is written, "...my flesh shall rest in hope..." [Acts 2:26], and

    "...his soul (being/person) was not left in hell (the grave), neither his flesh did see corruption..." [Acts 2:31]

    ...and thereby, He was in the same likeness of sinful flesh as we, yet living without sin, never having sinned, never once transgressed the Holy Law of God; Jesus showed that with God there is no excuse for sin and thus "...condemned sin in the flesh." [Romans 8:3];

    "... having crucified the flesh ..." [Galatians 5:24],

    and "... nailing it to His cross." [Colossians 2:4],

    "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh ..." [1 Peter 4:1];

    even "... being put to death in the flesh ..." [1 Peter 3:18],

    and we are to be "... crucified with Christ ..." [Galatians 5:24],

    "In the body of His flesh through death ..." [Colossians 1:22],

    become dead to the penalty of the Law, the 2nd Death, "... by the body of Christ ..." [Romans 7:4],

    that we might be "... members of His body, and of His flesh, and of His bones." [Ephesians 5:30],

    by a "... new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh;" [Hebrews 10:20]

    so that we may know this, "... Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." [Romans 6:6]

    "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" [Hebrews 10:5]

    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." [1 Peter 2:24]

    "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]." [Hebrews 10:10]​

    Therefore, we have this hope, "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." [Philippians 3:21]

    Therefore, it is very important to understand with what flesh Jesus came, not only to the Everlasting Gospel [Genesis 3:15; Revelation 14:6-7, etc], and how Christ Jesus is to save us from sin [Matthew 1:21; not in it] and to redeem us unto God, it is written,

    "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:" [1 John 4:2]​

    What flesh is John speaking about? The very likeness of sinful flesh we have, of the race of Adam, for he says,

    "... our hands have handled, of the Word of life." [1 John 1:1]

    And it is written of those which refuse this, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [1 John 4:3]

    "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." [2 John 1:7]​

    And who teaches that Jesus did not come in that sinful flesh?

    Roman Catholicism, that Mother of Harlots, through its Immaculate Conception of Mary Dogma ...

    ... and also her daughters [Apostate Protestantism], which does not teach the immaculate conception, but removes from Jesus that flesh nonetheless, even as do the Jehovah's Witnesses [etc] do ...

    ...there are many "... not discerning the Lord's body." [1 Corinthians 11:29]

    Please read Romans 5 carefully and prayerfully, and especially see Romans 5:19 and read it several times and come to understand what it is powerfully saying, along with all the places in Revelation which speaks about over coming, even as He overcame in the flesh.
     
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  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    That which is also important to note about Jesus, is that He not only eternally exists, but took upon Himself, the flesh of men, being born of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, thus He is Holy [a small sampling]:

    Isaiah 31:1 KJB - Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!

    Isaiah 37:23 KJB - Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.

    Isaiah 40:25 KJB - To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.

    Isaiah 41:14 KJB - Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

    Isaiah 41:16 KJB - Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.

    Isaiah 41:20 KJB - That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

    Isaiah 43:3 KJB - For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

    Isaiah 43:14 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.

    Isaiah 43:15 KJB - I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

    Isaiah 45:11 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

    Isaiah 47:4 KJB - As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

    Isaiah 48:17 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

    Isaiah 49:7 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

    Isaiah 54:5 KJB - For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

    Isaiah 55:5 KJB - Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

    Isaiah 60:9 KJB - Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

    Isaiah 60:14 KJB - The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

    Habakkuk 1:12 KJB - Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.

    Habakkuk 3:3 KJB - God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.

    Matthew 1:18 KJB - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

    Mark 1:24 KJB - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

    Luke 1:35 KJB - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Luke 2:23 KJB - (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord

    Luke 4:34 KJB - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

    Acts 2:27 KJB- Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Acts 3:14 KJB - But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

    Acts 4:27 KJB - For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

    Acts 4:30 KJB - By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

    Acts 13:35 KJB - Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Romans 11:16 KJB - For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

    Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    1 Peter 1:15 KJB - But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

    1 Peter 1:16 KJB - Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.​

    Yet, please take note, that the Flesh and Spirit are two things:

    John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    There is no scripture which reveals that Mary was 'assumed into Heaven', and the Apostle John wrote nothing of it in scripture and he was the one given charge of her and she of him, and he outlived her.

    Roman Catholicism itself says:

    ... At the same time, it must be confessed that we do not possess any authentic documents bearing directly on Mary's post-Pentecostal life. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; “The Most Blessed Virgin Mary”; subsection “The Post-pentesoctal Life Of Mary”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

    ... Regarding the day, year, and manner of Our Lady's death, nothing certain is known. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

    "St. John Damascene
    St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

    "The feast of the Assumption
    Regarding the origin of the feast we are also uncertain. It is more probably the anniversary of the dedication of some church than the actual anniversary of Our Lady's death. That it originated at the time of the Council of Ephesus, or that St. Damasus introduced it in Rome is only a hypothesis. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Feast Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

    An "assumption" based on no facts, but mere vain "tradition" of men, made up out of the aether.

    Another Roman Catholic theology associated with this 'theotokos' dogma is also not found in scripture, in that it is claimed that 'Mary' offered Jesus:

    "Before reciting the Angelus, the Pope concluded his reflection by pointing out that the Gospel teaching has promoted an “active mentality” among Christian populations, even in the historical and social spheres, and yet “the central message regards the spirit of responsibility with which the Kingdom of God is to be accepted: responsibility toward God and toward humanity.” The perfect model of this attitude is found in the heart of the Virgin Mary, “who, receiving the most precious of gifts, Jesus himself, offered him to the world with great love." - [Fides [org]] -
    http://www.fides.org/en/news/19200?idnews=19200&lan=eng

    The Bible never says that Mary 'offered' Jesus, for it states clearly in John 3:16 that God the Father 'gave' Jesus and Jesus 'gave' of Himself (John 6:51, 10:15).

    In Hebrews 9:14 we read:

    Hebrews 9:14 KJB - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?​

    What of 'worship', 'invoking', 'veneration' and 'praying' to Mary? The Bible says:

    Matthew 4:10 KJB - Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Luke 4:8 KJB - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.​

    When the 'wisemen' came did they honour her or Jesus?

    Matthew 2:11 KJB - "...they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him ..."​

    Look unto Christ Jesus, not unto Mary. Whom was it that ye cried unto for salvation? Whose Law and Commandments have been broken?

    Romans 10:13 KJB - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

    Calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus:

    Acts 22:16 KJB - And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    1 Corinthians 1:2 KJB - "... call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord ..."

    Acts 4:12 KJB - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    John 5:23 KJB - That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.​

    Mary is absent from these, there is no 'theotokos' in scripture.

    But does Roman Catholic theology stop at mere 'veneration' (Hyper-Dulia, so-called) of 'Mary'?

    No, for it even includes "worship" which is "in common" with that of worship of God, and so much more.

    "...the Most August Virgin Mary ... this Divine Mother... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God, so that the Church even addresses to her the words with which we pray to God: "Have mercy on sinners."

    the heavenly choirs, "above whom the Holy Mother of God is exalted." ...” http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xi...c_12091897_augustissimae-virginis-mariae.html & http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13augus.htm

    Is there any Biblical or Historical data to confirm such a claim that Mary was "assumed" into Heaven?

    No, and even Rome fully admits this, for they base it on mere "tradition" and fallen human "reason".

    I answer that, Nothing is handed down in the canonical Scriptures concerning the sanctification of the Blessed Mary as to her being sanctified in the womb; indeed, they do not even mention her birth.
    But as Augustine, in his tractate
    on the Assumption of the Virgin, argues with reason, since her body was assumed into heaven, and yet Scripture does not relate this...” [Thomas Aquinas; Summa Theologica; Third Part; Question 27; Article I; “I answer that...”] [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas Second and Revised Edition, 1920 Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol. Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii. APPROBATIORDINIS Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L. Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ
    MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ ] - http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4027.htm
     
  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    The Roman Catholic 'Mary' is called “Sedi Sapientiae”, which means the Seat/Throne of (all) Wisdom. However, in scripture, we know of such an being that had such an attribute, and a throne, and seeks to be exalted above all the angels, can called holy and divine and to receive worship in some form:

    Ezekiel 28:12 KJB - Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

    Psalms 94:20 KJB - Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?

    Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Revelation 2:13 KJB - I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.​

    We can also pause and rethink the position of Mary a little more.

    Mary was "betrothed" to Joseph before she had ever heard any message from the Angel.

    For what purpose was she betrothed?

    Was it not to be married to Joseph?

    What purpose in the marriage then if not to have it consumated as is given to them by God from Creation?

    Was their marriage never to be consumated?

    Perhaps we could look some more at the scriptures:

    What has Paul's common sense to say about such:

    1 Corinthians 7:5 KJB - Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

    1 Corinthians 7:28 KJB - But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

    1 Corinthians 7:34 KJB - There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.​

    As it is written:

    Ecclesiastes 3:5 KJB - “... a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;”

    They had both consented that Joseph would not lie with her while she was with child. Yet what does the above texts reveal? It is not a sin for Joseph and Mary (whom was betrothed to Joseph), being married to consumate their marriage.

    Ephesians 5:31 KJB - For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    Proverbs 5:18 KJB - Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

    Genesis 2:24 KJB - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    Proverbs 18:22 KJB - [Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

    Exodus 21:10 KJB - If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. (though speaking of the rules of those who had already had multiple wives in those days, the same can still apply to those who have been widowed and marry another.)

    Moreover:

    Additionally we may see further by the same Scriptures, given by the Holy Spirit [2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21, etc], and by the mouth of the messenger Angel Gabriel, that Mary was indeed the "wife" of Joseph, and as such given to him of God for marriage [for every good gift, comes from God; James 1:17]:

    Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 1:24 KJB - Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

    Matthew 1:25 KJB - And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.​

    When God, by the Angel, says "thy wife" [even as "his espoused wife", Luke 2:5; see also Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:27], God has indeed given her in marriage to Joseph to actually be his wife, in all that this entails, and yet they both abstained from 'knowing' one another "till" [context, "knew her not till she had" and "thy wife"] she had brought forth Jesus.

    The word "knew" is the Greek "ginōskō", and just as the Hebrew word for to "know" [Genesis 4:1,17,25, etc "yada`", see the LXX for comparison in the same texts, "egnw"] used in the context of marriage, means the closest intimacy in the bonds of love within the marriage covenant, and includes the sexual relationship [see Luke 1:34; Matthew 1:25].

    It is not degrading for Mary to have been with Joseph after the birth of Jesus, for this is the gift of God in marriage. It is for their pleasure and comfort, joy and delight in each other, to reveal their love to one another in the closest way possible that two people can know. It is also for their safe-keeping from wandering to another.

    God created sex within marriage to be a delight and joy, not something to be shunned, or avoided.

    Would it have been fair to Joseph who had agreed to remain with her and marry her to not be able to spend such time with his wife, Mary (she who had been betrothed to him)? Is God cruel in this way? No, God is love.

    What is the point of all of the above? To reveal Mary trusted in His salvation, to save her from her sins and faults and she clung to God.
     
  10. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Now, Roman Catholicism, has a more sinister theology in regards Mary, as they teach that she is the Ark of the Covenant, and the Woman of Revelation 12.

    However, the "woman" of Revelation 12, though in small part includes Mary (for she is one of the people of God, whom the woman represents, who longed for the coming of the Messiah), but it speaks to the greater body of Christ (the "church in the wilderness", such as Moses and all Israel, see Acts 7:38; 1 Corinthians 10:1-12; Ephesians 5:22-33; Jeremiah 6:2; Isaiah 62:1-5; Revelation 22:17; etc who is in contrast to the Great Whore of Revelation 17).

    John 16:21 KJB - A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

    Luke 2:11 KJB - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.​

    For notice, this woman did not 'remain' in Heaven, but was chased and fled into the 'wilderness' for 1,260 years (the same timeframe as found in Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24; being a part of the larger 2,300 years of Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, etc, and connected with the 1,290 years of Daniel 12:11 and the 1,335 years of Daniel 12:12, and the 490 years of Daniel 9:24-27):

    Revelation 12:6 KJB - And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    Revelation 12:14 KJB - And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    Revelation 12:15 KJB - And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    Revelation 12:16 KJB - And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    Revelation12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

    Please notice that the "great wonder" of "a woman" that appeared "in Heaven" before she gave birth to the "man child", and was chased on earth (Revelation 12:6,12-17) "in the wilderness" after the "man child" (Jesus the Christ) was born and ascended, and for a very long time.

    Roman Catholicism attempts to link the previous scripture of Revelation 11:19, with the text of Revelation 12:1, and say that the "woman" is the Ark in the Most Holy Place of Heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth, for the timeframe that Revelation 11:19 speaks about is the timeframe of the end, the 7th trumpet:

    Revelation 11:15 KJB - And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.​

    Revelation 12:1, speaks about the timeframe long before Jesus was born, and the waiting of the people of God for the time prophecies to be fulfilled in Daniel:

    Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.​

    Roman Catholicism must confound these scriptures and time that it may exalt 'Mary', because in reality, Roman Catholicism's apparitional 'Mary' is really Satan masquerading as a messenger (angel) of Light (2 Corinthians 11:14). Now most Roman Catholics have no idea, but if they will simply read their own material (which I will later be citing), they will hear the very voice of satan exalting himself in them under the guise of this apparition of a woman.

    Mary is not in Heaven, she is dead, asleep in her grave, awaiting her resurrection, but because Roman Catholicism believes in neo-platonism, and immortal soul/spirit theology, spiritualism runs rampant in their theology, just as the nuns that never see the world practice, in their seances. Oh, they know what they are doing, and the carnal filth that goes with it.

    Additionally, if Roman Catholicism's theology desires to have this “woman” of Revelation 12 as 'Mary', then do they desire also to teach as the scripture does, that this “woman” of Revelation 12 had more descendants, as this “woman”, being the people of God throughout the ages, has numerous 'children', Jesus, being the “firstborn” of many, while the actual Mary had only one child, Jesus:

    Romans 8:29 KJB - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Revelation 12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Colossians 1:15 KJB - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    Colossians 1:18 KJB - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.​

    Paul solves the issue for us, line upon line: “... head of the body … who is the beginning … have the preeminence.”
     
  11. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Now, consider the greater context of the whole of scripture, for Christ Jesus can be said to fulfill both meanings, in that not only is:

    [1] Jesus is the “firstborn”, being the preeminent one:

    Romans 9:5 KJB - Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

    Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Colossians 2:10 KJB - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    Ephesians 1:21 KJB - Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

    Ephesians 1:22 KJB - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

    Ephesians 1:23 KJB - Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    Ephesians 3:9 KJB - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    Ephesians 4:15 KJB - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

    [2] Jesus is also the “firstborn” of the Woman/Church:

    Isaiah 9:6 KJB - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Luke 2:11 KJB - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    Hebrews 2:10 KJB - For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    Revelation 12:1 KJB - And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    Revelation 12:2 KJB - And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    Revelation 12:3 KJB - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    Revelation 12:4 KJB - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    Revelation 12:5 KJB - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.​

    Furthermore, Roman Catholicism's theology at this point, ignores that “a great red Dragon” was also “in heaven” with “the woman”:

    Revelation 12:3 KJB - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.​

    Do you begin to see that through such a confusing (1 Corinthians 14:33) theology that the Devil himself is in Heaven with 'Mary'? In fact, this is exactly what the devil wants, since he masquerades as the apparitional 'mary' on earth.

    While the devil had access to the gates of Heaven once again (Job 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Kings 22:19-24; 2 Chronicles 18:18-23; Luke 22:31; John 19:11), when Adam surrendered his steward-dominion (Genesis 1:24-31, 2:7-25; Psalms 8:4-6; Micah 4:8) over to him, it was at the Cross in AD 31 (Romans 5:6; Revelation 12:10), that the devil was permanently cast down, and no longer has access any more to the gates of Heaven, and is permanently stuck down here in “the pit”, pacing back and forth, until his time to be executed (Proverbs 28:15; Ezekiel 22:25; 1 Peter 5:8).
     
  12. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Persons within Roman Catholicism have claimed that “The "Woman" of Rev. 12:1 is the ONLY person in Heaven in the entire Book of Revelation described as having a full Body - head to toe. She is in Heaven - BODY and soul.”, but is this true? No.

    Jesus is described in Revelation 1 from Head to Foot, standing in the Holy Place of the Heavenly Temple itself:

    Revelation 1:10 KJB - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    Revelation 1:11 KJB - Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

    Revelation 1:12 KJB - And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

    Revelation 1:13 KJB - And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

    Revelation 1:14 KJB - His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

    Revelation 1:15 KJB - And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

    Revelation 1:16 KJB - And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

    Revelation 1:17 KJB - And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    Revelation 1:18 KJB - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    Revelation 1:19 KJB - Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

    Revelation 1:20 KJB - The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.​

    Again in Revelation 2 & 3, Jesus is made mention of again:

    Revelation 2:1 KJB - Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

    Revelation 3:1 KJB - And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.​

    Jesus is again seen, described as the great Messenger of God the Father in Revelation 10:

    Revelation 10:1 KJB - And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

    Revelation 10:2 KJB - And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

    Revelation 10:3 KJB - And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

    Revelation 10:4 KJB - And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

    Revelation 10:5 KJB - And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

    Revelation 10:6 KJB - And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

    Revelation 10:7 KJB - But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

    The Father's person is described in Revelation 4-5, as seated on the Throne, along with the 24 Elders (heavenly council of the unfallen worlds), and all the 4 living creatures (representatives of the unfallen worlds), see Luke 15:7; Revelation 12:12; Job 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Kings 22:19-24; 2 Chronicles 18:18-23, even all the angelic hosts (cherub, seraphim, etc).

    Moses and Elijah, are seen coming from Heaven, with full glorified bodies (2 Kings 2:1-23; Matthew 17:1-12; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; John 11:25; 2 Peter 1:16; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9; 1 Samuel 2:6 KJB), as Enoch would have (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; Job 14:14, 19:26; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54), as well as the resurrected 'firstfruits' (Psalms 68:18; Isaiah 26:19; Matthew 27:52,53; Ephesians 4:8; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23,35-49' Philippians 3:21; Luke 20:36; Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25, see Mark 16:5).

    Roman Catholicism teaches that Mary is this Ark, and that the old 'ark' that Moses built by command of God (Exodus 25:10; Deuteronomy 10:1) was a “shadow” of the future Mary. This is a serious and gross distortion of what the texts say. Moses was instructed of God, to make an “ark” after “the pattern” of the Real Ark that already existed in the Heavens.
     
  13. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Point 1. There is a true Sanctuary/Temple in Heaven - Hebrews 8:2; Revelation 11:19, 13:6

    Point 2. In that True Temple in Heaven, is the True original Ark of the Everlasting Covenant - Revelation 11:19

    Point 3. The copy that Moses and others made, like David/Solomon, was patterned after the Heavenly original - Exodus 25:8-9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:12,18-19; Hebrews 8:5

    Point 4. In that original Heavenly Ark is seen "his (God's everlasting) testament" - Revelation 11:19; which is God's Law (His eternal Ten Commandments) - Genesis 17:7; Psalms 105:7-10; etc.

    Point 5. Jesus Christ is our Great High Priest anointed at Pentecost (Psalms 133:1-3; Revelation 5:6; Acts 2:1-4,33; Hebrews 7:26, etc.) to minister first in the Holy Place (Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:10-20, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1-11 (location, first veil/door), 5:1-4, 6:1-12, 8:2-4, etc.), and later, according to the time prophecy of Daniel (Daniel 8:13,-14,26, etc) to move into the Most Holy Place (Revelation 3:7-8, second veil/door; Daniel 7:9-10,13-14,22(b.) (the Ancient of days came)).

    Point 6. When Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place in the great Heavenly Sanctuary, this began the Anti-typical day of atonement (Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:6, 12:6-7; etc). This did not take place at the Cross, in Jesus' burial, in His resurrection, in His ascension, at Pentecost, but far long after, in its proper "season" (Ecclesiastes 3:1).

    Point 7. This Heavenly ministration of Jesus Christ is being usurped and obscured (smoke) on earth, by the AntiChrist system, who places itself between God and man, as another mediator; (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31,36, 11:45, 12:11, etc), by distracting people from looking up by faith unto Christ alone there in what He is doing, with another system on earth (Revelation 12:13, 13:4).
     
  14. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    The ARK of the Covenant HAS BEEN FOUND since AD 1844! The Sabbath Commandment [Ex. 20:8-11] is seen!

    This is no joke, for there is irrefutable documented evidence, and it has been confirmed by the Holy Ghost Himself.

    Yes, brothers and sisters, it is True! The true Ark of the Covenant was found in AD 1844, and it was found located in a place which many forgot to look for it.

    Let's begin this real archeological hunt from the scriptures [KJB] as it will lead us right to it!

    Way back in Exodus, God spoke to Moses, and showed him the "pattern" to make on earth, which resembled that which existed in the Heavens ["... Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." [Matthew 6:10 KJB] and "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." [Psalms 40:8 KJB]]:

    Exodus 25:1 KJB - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

    Exodus 25:8 KJB - And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

    Exodus 25:9 KJB - According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

    Exodus 25:40 KJB - And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

    Numbers 8:4 KJB - And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.​

    Joshua knew of this "pattern":

    Joshua 22:28 KJB - Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should so say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we may say again, Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it is a witness between us and you.​

    David and Solomon, were given this "pattern" by the Holy Ghost/Spirit:

    1 Chronicles 28:10 KJB - Take heed now; for the LORD hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it.

    1 Chronicles 28:11 KJB - Then David gave to Solomon his son the pattern of the porch, and of the houses thereof, and of the treasuries thereof, and of the upper chambers thereof, and of the inner parlours thereof, and of the place of the mercy seat,

    1 Chronicles 28:12 KJB - And the pattern of all that he had by the spirit, of the courts of the house of the LORD, and of all the chambers round about, of the treasuries of the house of God, and of the treasuries of the dedicated things:

    1 Chronicles 28:19 KJB - All this, said David, the LORD made me understand in writing by his hand upon me, even all the works of this pattern.​

    Asaph the Psalmist knew of the "pattern":

    Psalms 77:13 KJB - Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?​

    Ezekiel was shown this "pattern":

    Ezekiel 43:10 KJB - Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.

    Ezekiel 43:11 KJB - And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

    Ezekiel 43:12 KJB - This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.​

    Paul, the writer of many epistles and of Hebrews, knew of this "pattern" and what was shown to Moses, and from where this "pattern" came from. It came from the True Tabernacle in Heaven!:

    Ephesians 1:20 KJB - Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

    Hebrews 8:1 KJB - Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

    Hebrews 8:2 KJB - A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

    Hebrews 8:3 KJB - For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

    Hebrews 8:4 KJB - For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

    Hebrews 8:5 KJB - Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

    Hebrews 8:6 KJB - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

    Hebrews 9:23 KJB - It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

    Hebrews 13:10 KJB - We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.​

    The Blueprint, the "pattern":


    The First Sabbath Angels Message, the "pattern" of God's perfect character:


    The Third Sabbath Angels Message, the "pattern" of the True and Counterfeit:


    His Way is in the Sanctuary, the "pattern":


    The Sanctuary and its "pattern":


    The Sanctuary Service - http://ourlasthour.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/The_Sanctuary_Service_by_M.L_Andreasen.pdf

    The Sanctuary A Biblical Consideration - http://otgateway.com/articles/Biblical-Sanctuary.pdf

    The Cross and its Shadow - http://adventpioneerbooks.com/Text/pioneer/SNHASKEL/CROSS.pdf
     
  15. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    In the Temple in Heaven, is the True and Original Ark of the Covenant, with God's Eternal "Covenant", the Ten Commandments therein.

    More - Sanctuary: Psalms 77:13 - Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary:

    Daniel the Prophet knew of the "pattern", and even of the original!:

    Daniel 8:11 KJB - Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

    Daniel 8:12 KJB - And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

    Daniel 8:13 KJB - Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

    Daniel 8:14 KJB - And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    Daniel 8:26 KJB - And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

    Daniel 9:24 KJB - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Daniel 11:31 KJB - And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.​

    John the Apostle knew of this "pattern", and even saw the original!:

    Revelation 1:12 KJB - And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

    Revelation 1:13 KJB - And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

    Revelation 3:7 KJB - And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

    Revelation 3:8 KJB - I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

    Revelation 4:1 KJB - After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

    Revelation 4:5 KJB - And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

    Revelation 9:13 KJB - And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

    Revelation 11:1 KJB - And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

    Revelation 11:19 KJB - And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    Revelation 15:5 KJB - And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:​

    The Holy 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, and is eternal in the Heavens!

    Psalms 119:89 KJB - LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

    Isaiah 1:10 KJB - Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

    Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Psalms 119:92 KJB - Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.

    Psalms 119:96 KJB - I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.​

    After the centuries these truths were forgotten, but at the end of the 2,300 day/years prophecy of Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc KJB, it was again found, along with the 7th Day the Sabbath written upon the Heavenly Tables in that Heavenly Ark, in the True Tabernacle in Heaven, which is the original, and of which God had shewed to His prophets to make a "pattern" of. ...

    "... The law of God in the sanctuary in Heaven is the great original, of which the precepts inscribed upon the tables of stone, and recorded by Moses in the Pentateuch, were an unerring transcript. Those who arrived at an understanding of this important point, were thus led to see the sacred, unchanging character of the divine law. They saw, as never before, the force of the Saviour's words, “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law.” [Matthew 5:18.] The law of God, being a revelation of his will, a transcript of his character, must forever endure, “as a faithful witness in Heaven.” Not one command has been annulled; not a jot or tittle has been changed. Says the psalmist: “Forever, O Lord, thy word is settled in Heaven.” “All his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever.” [Psalm 119:89; 111:7, 8.] GC88 434.1

    In the very bosom of the decalogue is the fourth commandment, as it was first proclaimed: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.” [Exodus 20:8-11.] GC88 434.2

    The Spirit of God impressed the hearts of those students of his Word. The conviction was urged upon them, that they had ignorantly transgressed this precept by disregarding the Creator's rest-day. They began to examine the reasons for observing the first day of the week instead of the day which God had sanctified. They could find no evidence in the Scriptures that the fourth commandment had been abolished, or that the Sabbath had been changed; the blessing which first hallowed the seventh day had never been removed. They had been honestly seeking to know and to do God's will; now, as they saw themselves transgressors of his law, sorrow filled their hearts, and they manifested their loyalty to God by keeping his Sabbath holy. GC88 434.3

    Many and earnest were the efforts made to overthrow their faith. None could fail to see that if the earthly sanctuary was a figure or pattern of the heavenly, the law deposited in the ark on earth was an exact transcript of the law in the ark in Heaven; and that an acceptance of the truth concerning the heavenly sanctuary involved an acknowledgment of the claims of God's law, and the obligation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Here was the secret of the bitter and determined opposition to the harmonious exposition of the Scriptures that revealed the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Men sought to close the door which God had opened, and to open the door which he had closed. But “He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth,” had declared, “Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it.” [Revelation 3:7, 8.] Christ had opened the door, or ministration, of the most holy place, light was shining from that open door of the sanctuary in Heaven, and the fourth commandment was shown to be included in the law which is there enshrined; what God had established, no man could overthrow. GC88 435.1 ..." - The Great Controversy, pages 434.1 - 435.1 - The Great Controversy, Table of Contents -- Ellen G. White Writings

    But there were prophecies within the Bible, that showed that there would come a desire from persons to change God's Law:

    Daniel 7:25 KJB - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.​

    Acts 20:30 KJB - Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.​
     
  16. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Nehemiah 9:6 KJB - Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

    Psalms 146:6 KJB - Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:

    Psalms 119:142 KJB - Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

    Acts 4:24 KJB - And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

    Acts 14:15 KJB - And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

    Revelation 10:6 KJB - And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

    Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
     
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    The 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God is truth, and is forever:

    Psalms 119:160 KJB - Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

    Psalms 119:151 KJB - Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

    Psalms 33:4 KJB - For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

    Romans 1:25 KJB - Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Mark 7:8 KJB - For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.​

    There are those among the race of "men", that "changed the truth of God into a lie", and "worshipped and served" "the creature", thus they "hold the tradition of men" and lay "aside the commandment of God".

    They choose not to keep God's Holy Sabbath day, the 7th Day, the day in which Jesus rested in Salvation "It is Finished", and entered into His rest, in remembrance, in memorial, and thus as they forget their Creator, the LORD of the Sabbath [Mark 2:27 KJB], they also forget their Redeemer, and what He came to redeem them from [Matthew 1:21; 1 John 3:4 KJB], and they turn away from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

    They break the heart of the Ten Commandments, breaking God's own heart, and they presume to call what they do - "love".

    Jesus said:

    John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.​

    The Ten Commandments, including the 4th Commandment [Exodus 20:8-11 KJB], are eternally written in the Heavens, even in the true Temple of God, in the true Ark of God.

    Look up into the Heavens, by faith, based upon the Word of God, and see God's eternal Law there, the foundation of His Kingdom/Government, the very thing that satan hates and seek to "change".

    Daniel 7:25 KJB - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.​

    The Bible says:

    Proverbs 24:21 KJB - My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:​

    Look at the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast [creature, the number of a man]:

    Revelation 14:6 KJB - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJB - Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man [Adam].

    Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Revelation 14:8 KJB - And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 14:9 KJB - And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

    Revelation 14:10 KJB - The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    Revelation 14:11 KJB - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    Revelation 14:12 KJB - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Colossians 3:2 KJB - Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.​

    Context, the Ten Commandments [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB]:

    Exodus 20:22 KJB - And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

    1 Corinthians 15:48 KJB - As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    1 Corinthians 15:49 KJB - And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    Philippians 3:19 KJB - Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

    Philippians 3:20 KJB - For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    Colossians 3:1 KJB - If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

    Colossians 3:2 KJB - Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.​

    This was where Jesus' always had his mind/heart [John 3:12 KJB; constantly dwelling upon the Heavenly], on the perfect will [Psalms 40:8; Matthew 6:10; Luke 11:2, 22:42 KJB] of His Father:

    John 3:12 KJB - If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    John 3:13 KJB - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​
     
  18. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    The 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God is rooted in His Glory, His character, which shone [revealed, manifested] from Day 1 -

    2 Corinthians 4:4 KJB - In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    2 Corinthians 4:5 KJB - For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

    2 Corinthians 4:6 KJB - For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

    God's Law not only shows persons their need of a Saviour, even down to this very day, which demonstrates their inviolability and eternal nature, but they are also each a promise of God to the New Man, in that in the New Covenant, God says, "I will ....", and through faith in that promises understand the mercy-side of God's character [The Ten Commandments], such that, He promises that:

    we will not have other gods before Him.
    we will not make graven images or bow down to serve them.
    we will not take the name of the LORD our God in vain.
    we will Remember to keep His Sabbath, the 7th Day, the LORD's day, Holy.
    we will honour our Father and mother, and inherit the new Heaven and Earth, the land of the promise.
    we will not kill/murder.
    we will not commit adultery.
    we will not steal.
    we will not bear false witness against our near-brother.
    we will not covet our near-brother's wife or house or things.

    Why, because they are God's own immutable character, and we are re-made in His image and likeness.

    So why does it say that we will not commit adultery? It is because God is perfectly faithful in His promises.

    So why does it say that we will not kill/murder? It is because God Himself is eternal life.

    So why does it say that we will not steal? It is because God gave His only begotten Son, even all things in Him, withholding nothing.

    So why does it say that we will not covet? It is because God is self-less love.

    So why does it say that we shall honour our Father and mother? It is because God is honourable and honours those who honour Him, and New Jerusalem above is the mother of us all, and whosoever does the will of God is His brother, sister and mother.

    So why does it say that we shall Remember to keep the Sabbath holy? It is because God Himself is Holy, and the Author and Finisher of our Faith, perfecting the Love of God in us.

    So why does it say that we shall not take His name in vain? It is because the name of God is love itself, and He cannot deny His character.

    etc...

    Do you realize that anyone in breaking God's Sabbath and disregarding His explicit command, they have broken all the commandments?

    1. Placing another as 'god" before God, for they acknowledge another and obey them
    2. They have an idol, either of self, or another, they serve another, rather than the Creator [the LORD of the 7th Day]
    3. They have taken God's name in vain, for they do not have His character [which the Law is a transcript of]
    4. They have not rested, but worked, not believed but doubted
    5. They dishonoured their Father in Heaven [Isaiah 58:13 KJB], and their Mother [Galatians 4:26 KJB]
    6. They have murdered themselves, not resting, but continuing to work
    7. They have commited adultery having left subjection to God, for another's will
    8. They have stolen themselves from God, and thieved the time that belonged to Him, living as they pleased
    9. They have born false witness in the world as to who God is, what His character is like
    10. They have coveted their own ideas, plans and time rather than God's will.​

    Why is that commandment not important? It has the word Holy in it, the Holy Commandment [2 Peter 2:21 KJB]. It has God's actual name JEHOVAH in it, describing His authority, position and kingdom.

    The Sabbath commandment, a promise as are all the others, describes the moral aspect of God's character:

    1. God is relational, God to man, and man to man, an at-one-ing God.
    2. God is purposeful, God gives purpose, of work and rest.
    3. God is Creator and Redeemer, and concerns Himself in love to that which is created, thus He is Life
    4. God is an Author and Finisher, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the ending, First and the last
    5. God is Holy, and the Sanctifier and the one who Blesses
    6. God is above nature, greater than creation
    7. God is the example for all creation, in that He worked and in that He rested
    8. God is selfless, being the giver, for it was given as a gift
    9. God is logical, mathematical, orderly, consistent, star systems, planets, orbits, days, years, cycles, etc
    10. God is no respecter of persons
    11. God is worthy to be worshipped, loved, etc
    12. God is the owner and sustainer
    13. God is all about family, cohesive love
    14. God is intelligent and wise, thus "remember" [a word, re-member, to bring back together as one, at-one-ment]
    15. God is fore-thinking​
    etc.
     
  19. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Moses saw the "pattern" of the true Heavenly things themselves, having been shown them by God - even Jesus, and was to make the earthly things after their "fashion":

    Acts 7:44 KJB - Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.​

    In the days of Solomon [after David], he too was to make a grander, more lasting earthly model of the heavenly:

    Acts 7:47 KJB - But Solomon built him an house. ​

    The reason for this was because the one by Moses was a temporary tent/tabernacle, that waxed old and is like unto our bodies, but Solomon's temple of precious stones and metals was to be an model of something everlasting and [as earthly possible] that fadeth not away, like unto the bodies of the resurrection.

    But God said:

    Acts 7:48 KJB - Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,​

    [That is to say 'human hands']​

    Acts 7:49 KJB - Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

    Acts 7:50 KJB - Hath not my hand made all these things?​

    [the Hand of God, and is not His rest upon the Real Ark, His Throne with the Mercy Seat? [as His 'footstool', the mini-ark on earth made by Moses, etc], and what then is the foundation of His Government, the eternal Kingdom, the King's Dominion? His original eternal Law/Character.]​

    Notice, did not God make those things which are in the Heavens, even the true Temple which the LORD pitched and not man?

    Hebrews 8:2 KJB - A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.​

    Jesus was the one that came down upon the mount Sinai, with ten thousand times ten thousands, and thousands of thousands of angels:

    Consider:

    Jesus is called an "angel" [messenger - all through scripture, see also Malachi 3:1; Galatians 4:14, etc, even "archangel"; Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25 KJB, etc, the highest messenger of the Father], dealing with office, not nature.

    Deuteronomy 33:2 KJB - And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.​

    God in awesome majesty came, and said that if anything approached the mountain, it would die, for God Himself was going to give the standards of the eternal Kingdom, from the very foundation of His eternal throne:

    Exodus 24:10 KJB - And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

    Exodus 24:11 KJB - And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.​

    [A covenant meal, upon a mountain, eating and drinking with Jesus.]

    The Ten Commandments are not transitory, and are never stated as such, nor implied in scripture to be so, but are eternal, permanent, immutable, even as "...it is written."

    Psalms 45:6 [see also Hebrews 1:8 KJB] - Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre.​

    The Ten Commandments were cut from this crystal blue sapphire throne of God [Exodus 24:10,12 [Hebrew: "tables of the Stone"; definite article ["häeven"], question then becomes, What stone? The very blue sapphire stone of the Throne of God in the very same context], and Exodus 28:28,31,37, 31:18, 32:16 "And the tables [were] the work of God, and the writing [was] the writing of God, graven upon the tables." and Exodus 39:21-22,31; Numbers 15:38-41; Ezekiel 1:22,26, 10:1]

    Even the Legends of the Jews, by Louis Ginzberg, picked up on this,

    "...Moses departed from the heavens with the two tables on which the Ten Commandments were engraved, and just the words of it are by nature Divine, so too are the tables on which they are engraved. These were created by God's own hand in the dusk of the first Sabbath at the close of the creation, and were made of a sapphire-like stone...." - Legends of the Jews, Volume 3, page 258 - http://archive.org/stream/legendsoft...ut/3lotj10.txt
    "...state that the sapphire employed for the tables was taken from the throne of Glory..." - Legends of the Jews, Volume 6; page 49 [see also page 59] - http://books.google.com/books?ei=UWH...#search_anchor

    Also according to the Targum,

    "...Then it was said to Moses: 83 "Ascend to the firmament and I will give you two tables of stone, 84 hewn from the sapphire of the throne of My glory, 85 gleaming like fine gold, arranged in lines 86 and written by My finger. 87 Engraved on them are the Ten Words, 88 refined more than silver that has been refined seven times seven [ways] -- that is the sum total of the principles..." - The Aramiac Bible, the Targums; by Phillip Alexander, page 89-90 [especially see Note 85] - http://books.google.com/books?id=hDw...page&q&f=false

    This is why the Jews placed the blue ribband around their garments to remind them of the Law:

    Numbers 15:38 KJB - Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

    Numbers 15:39 KJB - And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

    Numbers 15:40 KJB - That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.​

    Again, it is written:

    Psalms 111:7 KJB - The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure.​

    God carved the Ten Commandments with his own Finger ["...written with the finger of God." Exodus 31:18 KJB; "...written with the finger of God..." Deuteronomy 9:10 KJB], the very work of His own hands [Exodus 32:16 KJB].

    Psalms 111:8 KJB - They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness.

    Psalms 111:10 KJB - The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.​

    God directly spoke the Ten Commandments aloud to all, from Heaven [Deuteronomy 4:12,15,33,36, 5:4,22,23,24,26, 9:10, 10:4, KJB etc]:

    Psalms 89:34 KJB - My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.​

    God reveals the Truth:

    Psalms 119:142 - Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

    Psalms 119:151 - Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

    John 1:17 KJB - "... grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."​

    Consider:

    Exodus 19:12 KJB - And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

    Exodus 19:13 KJB - There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

    Exodus 19:19 KJB - And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

    Exodus 19:20 KJB - And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

    Exodus 3:2 KJB - And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

    Acts 7:30 KJB - And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

    Acts 7:35 KJB - This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.​
     
  20. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Moses received instruction privately about many other things after God spake aloud the ten commandments:

    Deuteronomy 4:14 KJB - And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

    Deuteronomy 6:1 KJB - Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:​

    God's Ten Comamndments already existed before Mt. Sinai, thus, God gave further things through Moses because of "transgressions" [Galatians 3:19; 1 John 3:4 KJB] of that already existing Law of the Kingdom of Heaven/God. Thus the difference between that which went inside of the Ark, the Ten Commandments [written by God], and that which went outside to the side of the Ark, the book of the Law, written by the hand of Moses. God instructed Moses in all those things through angels that came to visit Moses, including the Son of the Father himself, the "Angel of the LORD".

    Consider that God's throne is Heavenly, the greater and true Ark, whereon is the True Mercy Seat, and beneath this, the foundation of the Heavenly Kingdom, God's eternal Law of righteousness.

    In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the earth, and worked 6 days, but in the 7th day, God rested, and entered into what He calls "my rest", the Sabbath of the LORD God. God was not upon earth when this was done, but in the 3rd Heaven.

    Isaiah 66:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    Act 7:48 KJB - Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

    Acts 7:49 KJB - Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?​

    The Holy Ghost is still speaking to the heart. in this the finals days of mankinds probation, and therefore harden not your heart as they in the days of Stephen:

    Acts 7:50 KJB - Hath not my hand made all these things?

    Acts 7:51 KJB - Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

    Acts 7:52 KJB - Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

    Acts 7:53 KJB - Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.​

    Notice, the remaining of Isaiah 66:

    Isaiah 66:21 KJB - And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.​

    [Indeed, a nation of King-priests, an holy nation, a royal priesthood]​

    Isaiah 66:22 KJB - For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

    Isaiah 66:23 KJB - And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.​

    Isaiah looked into Heaven, and saw the Heavenly Temple/House of God! the Doors of the Posts, the Altar and Tongs thereof:

    Isaiah 6:1 KJB - In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

    Isaiah 6:2 KJB - Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

    Isaiah 6:3 KJB - And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

    Isaiah 6:4 KJB - And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

    Isaiah 6:5 KJB - Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

    Isaiah 6:6 KJB - Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

    Isaiah 6:7 KJB - And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

    Isaiah 6:8 KJB - Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

    Isaiah 6:9 KJB - And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

    Isaiah 6:10 KJB - Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    Isaiah 6:11 KJB - Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

    Isaiah 6:12 KJB - And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

    Isaiah 6:13 KJB - But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

    Daniel 8:11 KJB - Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.​
     
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