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Featured Rich men entering the Kingdom

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Revmitchell, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Luk 18:24 Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!
    Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

    If Calvinism is true then why would it be difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God?
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:26–29)
     
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  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    If Ephesians 2:1-10 is true ...

    • [NIV] 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
    ... then why would it be difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God?

    [I guess the ONLY possible conclusion MUST BE that God's arm really is short! :Cry What a bummer. :( ]

    :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    This does not answer the op.
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It answers most of it. For the rest Jesus said: “The disciples were greatly astonished when they heard this and said, “Then who can be saved?”Jesus looked at them and replied, “This is impossible for mere humans, but for God all things are possible.”” (Matthew 19:25–26)
     
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  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Luke had a lot to say about money.
    A while back I came across three stories in Acts that could be connected to tell a story about rich men and how one might enter the kingdom.

    "But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. However, he kept back part of the proceeds with his wife’s knowledge, and brought a portion of it and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    “Ananias,” Peter asked, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds of the land? Wasn’t it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn’t it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to people but to God"
    Acts 5.1-4 CSB

    "When Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also so that anyone I lay hands on may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter told him, “May your silver be destroyed with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this matter, because your heart is not right before God. Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, your heart’s intent may be forgiven." Acts 8.18-22 CSB

    "There was an Ethiopian man, a eunuch and high official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of her entire treasury. He had come to worship in Jerusalem and was sitting in his chariot on his way home, reading the prophet Isaiah aloud. " Acts 8.27-28 CSB

    Which of these three entered the kingdom?

    Entering the kingdom is hard for the rich because the rich think they can use their prosperity to influence God.

    The only way to enter is with a heart of faith.

    Does this connect with Calvinistic doctrine?

    Rob
     
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  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes it does.
     
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  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    'My take' of the Rich Young Ruler - He ran to Christ, kneeled before Him, and saluted Him with language intended for the divine. Christ loved him and did not dispute his claim of doing no ill towards his neighbor. The evidence points to this young man being born from above. Where he messed up is when he asked, "What lack I yet"? And Christ says, 'if you would be perfect sell all and follow me'. Christ actually put it forth to him to become His disciple, and he balked. I agree with Edersheim on this, 'saved' here is not in reference to the eternal salvation of the soul but of entering into the benefits of the kingdom, i.e., new covenant.

    Also remember, this is just a photo snap shot of this young man at this moment in time, just as with Nicodemus in Jn 3. Who knows that he did not indeed later on join with the saints in Jerusalem who sold all and held everything in common.

    'Pink's take' - "Concerning the rich young ruler of whom it is said Christ "loved him" (Mark 10:21), we fully believe that he was one of God's elect and was "saved" sometime after his interview with our Lord. . . . It is written, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out," and this man certainly did "come" to Him." A.W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God

    https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/which-are-you.109583/page-3#post-2437682
     
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  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Brethren the first thing that has to be determined is where is the Kingdom Of Heaven?... Is the Kingdom Of Heaven the same as the Kingdom Of God?... Brother Glen:)

    Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
     
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  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    It fails to answer the op because it does not answer why it is difficult. If the man is elect and rich where is the difficulty? Are you saying it is difficult for God to elect or save rich people even though in the end He may win? The entire idea that it is difficult because they are rich goes against the idea that man is elect before the foundation of the world.
     
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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4

    14 Now after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
    15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel. Mk 1
     
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you are an alcoholic and Christ converts you. Is it difficult to overcome your crutch? How about the rich man's crutch?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You stopped short, matthew 19:26!
     
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    How about the church at Laodicea?... Brother Glen:)

    Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

    3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
     
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't matter.
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    He did not say anything about a crutch.
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Money certainly is a crutch.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. They are the same. Matthew is primarily written to Jews and Jews did not like the use of the word "God" in descriptive writing or speech. There were several alternate words that were used to convey the same idea.

    See Matthew 19:23-24 where Jesus uses the two terms interchangeably.
     
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  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say it wasn't but has nothing to do with this issue.
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If a person trusts in money, they cannot serve God. So it is very difficult for the rich who think they are self made to enter the kingdom. But the truth of God's granting riches to some fixes this.
     
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