Ask A Baptist A Question

Seems like this forum should have a section for all Christians to ask a Baptist a question since they cannot reply in the All Baptists section to ask a Baptist a question.

My question to the Baptist members of this forum is; do you guys worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and where is the scriptural support for that practice in teaching that kind of worship in any of the epistle?

Now the real hard question is; have you ever noticed in those movements of the 'spirit', where they address the Holy Spirit in worship to come and fall on them where there is a response of a visitation of confusion with believers falling backwards, or having uncontrollable laughter, or other signs of confusion etc.? I ask you why would God allow a strong delusion to occur when they were addressing the Holy Spirit in prayer & in worship?

Now you may say that doesn't happen in a Baptist church, but if you leave the door wide open by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, ( and some hymnals have the Holy Spirit being singularly addressed in worship and even one hymnal asking Him to come and fall on them too ) then when it happens, you might have a hard time convincing those that have fallen to it that it was not the Holy Spirit when they were addressing Him in worship.

See my concern for the body of believers? That is why I posted this thread below in asking this Bible question.

A Bible Question

 

You mean like "holy laughter"? Things like that or? Just asking for clarification.

May I ask why the Holy Spirit was not mentioned as another way to honor God the Father in John 5:22-23?

Also, where is the actual scripture that teaches worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? Philippians 2:5-13 seems to testify that the mind of Christ we are to have in worship to glorify God the Father by is by exalting the name of Jesus Christ above every other name; thus the obedience Paul was talking about in Philippians 2:12-13

Is that not adding to the significance of the father's will as the only way to honor Him is by honoring the Son as led by the Holy Spirit to do, and when we are not honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring God the Father?

I believe the modified Nicene creed in 381 A.D. is responsible for that, and I believe Jesus warned us against it in Matthew 7:13-17 as being ecumenical is the fruit of the false prophet in gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles whereby many can attest "miracles" by these signs and lying wonders in Matthew 7:21-23, but they are workers of iniquity for why the believers are falling in those movements of the 'spirit' as Jesus stated for not paying heed to His words in Matthew 7:24-27. The solution is to narrow the way back to the Son in coming to God the Father in worship as honoring the Son is the only way we can honor the Father.

This is what I am led to believe in His words of John 5:22-23 for why John 14:6 is not just about salvation, but how we approach God the Father in everything in fellowship, prayer, & worship and that is by the only way of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ Whose name is above every other name. The Nicene creed of 381 A.D. would explain why only a few will find the only way in approaching God the Father by as this warning is also from Jesus; John 10:1 and John 10:7-9

If the bride seek the face of the Bridegroom in worship, then no leeway will be given to seducing spirits masquerading as the Holy Spirit with signs in taking their eyes off of the Son in worship which the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never do in worship.

I hope more Baptist members like the idea enough so that the Administrator may create a section in the forums for Q & A.

I'm sure there are a lot of Christians out there that has questions but are afraid to ask in their church. The only way we can grow in Christ is by seeking answers to those questions we would like to know in the knowledge of Him.

Thank you for your reply.

 

Since not all Bible versions say the same thing, I do not see preferring a Bible version over others for maintaining the actual meaning of His words as a veneration of that particular Bible, but a simple love for the truth ( Truth ) in His words.

Example would be how all the Bibles testify that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself or by His own initiative, or by His own authority or on His own accord if you look at all the Bible versions of John 16:13 as He can only speak what He hears; and yet before a new version had come out, only the KJV had kept that truth of John 16:13 in Romans 8:26 by citing that the Holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for each of us because even His groanings cannot be uttered, but you do not see that truth of John 16:13 maintained in other modern Bible versions. Indeed, the NIV commits a grammatical error by replacing the "he" in Romans 8:27 with "the Spirit" as if He is the "he" in the conclusion of that verse when that "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts and thus separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of for why that "he" in that verse cannot conclude as being "the Spirit".

So I reckon it is a matter of how much a believer loves Jesus by loving keeping His words as Jesus has said that the Father has said in John 14:23-24 & even keeping His words in regards to the words of His disciples in John 15:20. Those scriptural reference prophesied to believers that there will be a time when one needs to discern with Him which Bible version to rely on for the meat of His words since they are used to discern good & evil; and in this case, God's gift of tongues which is for speaking unto the people in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 cannot be used by the Holy Spirit in uttering His own intercessions out loud to God; and the kind of tongue wayward believers are defending is the one gained by receiving what they believe was the baptism of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation from when they had heard the calling of the gospel at the time they had first believed in Him.

The wayward believers believed that spirit that fell over them apart from salvation bringing that "tongue" which never comes with interpretation as being the Holy Spirit and so they assumed that tongue was for "private use" when it is the world's tongues that is just vain and profane gibberish nonsense as found in other religions of the world, the occult, and cults in Christianity. They wrest Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter as I believe Peter was testifying to that in 2 Peter 3:15-17, ignoring that Paul was exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over tongues because God's gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift that it needs another to interpret that tongue for that tongue to be fruitful even to the tongue speaker.

Plus they ignore God's warning in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 as well as in 1 John 4:1-6 that reproves that supernatural experience apart from the calling of the gospel as not of Him at all as what they are promoting to the body of Christ is another gospel and thus another receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from the calling of the gospel and thereby departing from faith in Jesus Christ as Paul explained in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 and the addressing those falling away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 as not to treat them as the enemy, but to withdraw from them to admonish them as brothers still in leading them to repentance.

But when you have modern Bibles sowing doubts in God's words of John 16:13 by Romans 8:26-27, that is why many will not see the actual meaning of His words in John 16:13 in all Bible versions to see the error in Romans 8:26-27 in order to discern good and evil regarding that other baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues that comes with no interpretation.

They just don't see themselves ignoring Paul's point to seek the gift of prophesy over tongues as they are all using their wresting of scripture to promote the opposite by seeking tongues over prophesy by seeking to receive the Holy spirit apart from salvation; thus the falling away from the faith is happening in these latter days in droves ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 )

That "holy laughter" movement also happens by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation so the wayward believers do not stop at that other calling to seek the Holy Spirit just to get tongues that does not come with interpretation. There are other signs like believers falling backwards and doing other acts of confusion that ties in with this "spirit" apart from salvation.

So I reckon some zealous for the KJV will come off as worshiping the version, but their love for the Truth in His words should not be mistaken for Bible worship.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

Actually, scripture of Philippians 2:5-13 does teaches us to have that mind of Christ to exalt the name of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ above every other name which IS to the glory of God the Father. Indeed, the glory of God rests in His Son ( John 13:31-32 ) and that is why God's judgment is on every believer on how we honor the Father and that is by only honoring the Son in worship in John 5:22-23 and that is why the moment we stop honoring the Son by honoring the "Holy Spirit", we are no longer honoring the Father. If the latter part of verse 23 was not written, there would be leeway to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but because of that latter part of John 5:23, there is no leeway as Philippians 2:5-13 supports the meaning of His words in John 14:6 that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father in worship as led by the indwelling Holy Spirit & scripture for us to do.

Only seducing spirits would take the spotlight off of the Son in worship by their visitations in signs and lying wonders, but the indwelling holy Spirit would never do that but lead us as the scripture declares to keep our eyes on the Son in worship, in fellowship, and in prayer.

To climb up any other way around the Son to God the Father, is how believers go astray and follow a stranger's voice as John 10:1-5 warns as no one is between us and the Father except the Bridegroom Himself ( John 10:7-9 ) Those that have gone astray , if they do not repent, are at risk of being left behind to face the coming great tribulation, but they are still His sheep having His seal for why He MUST bring them in John 10:16 as they will be received after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in His name in the millennium reign.

 

Since you know that the Holy Spirit does not seek that worship for Himself as His goal is to have the Son of God worshipped, then how can any believer be led by the Spirit to worship the Spirit? In other words, any believer worshiping the Holy Spirit is NOT being led by the Spirit of God to do that in worship, right?

It is not a question about the deity of the Holy Spirit, but what we are led by the Holy Spirit to do in according to scripture in worship of the Son in honoring the Son and thereby honoring & glorifying God the Father in worship..

 

Correct, but that still does not remove the plainness of scripture in how God the Father wants us to approach Him by in worship and that is by the only way of the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That truth you shared also does not remove the plainness of scripture in the only way to honor the Father by in worship and that is by honoring only the Son which is what scripture and the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do to the glory of God the Father.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Philippians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

That is the obedience Paul was talking about in verse 12 as that is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship which is to the glory of God the Father.

God as God can only be glorified in the Son.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

God the Father cannot be glorified by glorifying God the Father because where is the glory of God the Father? God the Father cannot be glorified by glorifying the Holy Spirit for where is the glory of the Holy Spirit? God the Father is glorified by glorifying the Son. Honoring & glorifying the Son is the only way to honor & glorify God the Father.

 

That's "in spirit & in truth". In the context of that paraphrased portion of that verse you had quoted, Jesus was answering the woman at the well her question about where to worship God at; the mountains or in Jerusalem. Jesus said "God is a Spirit" to refer to the omnipresence of God whereby because of Jesus Christ, believers can worship God the Father anywhere as our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 ) and Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) and so in order to come to God the Father anywhere is by the only way of the Son in worship ( John 14:6 ) Whom by honoring the Son and thereby honoring the Father in worship ( John 5:23 ).

 

When it is written that when we do not honor the Son, we are not honoring the Father, then what happens when you honor the Holy Spirit when that is not honoring the Son?

One thing I will share from my discourse with a believer in another Christian forum many years ago where he was posting from India, he shared his experience regarding his changing from his former disbelief about the Holy Spirit doing any dramatic manifestations today as He has done in the early church days of the N.T. He recounted the supernatural experience when his church celebrated the calendar day of Pentecost by honoring the Holy Spirit that day at his local church service. While honoring the Holy Spirit in worship,.he had described what felt like liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull and he found himself confessing against his will an apology to the Holy Spirit for not believing that He would do dramatic manifestations today as He has done back in the early church days.

Loss of self control? Confessing against his will an apology to the "Holy Spirit". This is where the spirit does not seem to be the Spirit of Christ as meek and lowly in heart to find rest unto our souls. Indeed, seeping into his skull like liquid nitrogen is the epitome of receiving another spirit when the real holy Spirit has been dwelling within him since he had first believed at the calling of the gospel.

So if you are following that line of discernment in testing the spirits as John pointed out in 1 John 4:1 by knowing 1 John 4:4 & John 14:16-17 then you know that was not the real Holy Spirit that was bullying his way into that fellow believer.

So why would God permit that strong delusion to occur? For believing the lie that one can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation? Not in this case. The believer did not believe that would happen, but it did by his honoring the Holy Spirit in worship. By broadening the way in the worship place by going around the Son in coming to God the Father : John 10:1 thus treating His words in John 14:6 as if Jesus did not really meant that He was the only way to come to God the Father by, then God permitted that strong delusion to occur because the brother did not heed His words on the only way to honor the Father in worship is by honoring the Son.

So even though I think most Baptists in this forum knows that "holy laughter" is not of God, if that phenomenon comes to your church or something like it where they feel a presence of a spirit coming over them, do remind them that we are not to believe every spirit but test them and that is by knowing that the real indwelling Holy Spirit dwells in us by faith in Jesus Christ since we had first believed at the calling of the gospel so then that spirit coming over them later on in life is NOT the real Holy Spirit at all.

So yes.. I believe it is wrong and a sin against His words in how to honor the Father by when honoring the Holy Spirit in worship. If God would call sinners away from their worship of spirits and communing with spirits to a personal relationship with Him through the Son, the n we should pay heed to all the invitations pointing to the Son, not just for salvation, but for coming to God the Father for anything in prayer or in worship as well as in fellowship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Considering the actual meaning of His words, and the cause and effect on those that ignore it, I would make the Son the sole focus in worship in order to glorify God the Father by as I am led by scripture and the Holy Spirit in me to do.

 

Right. There is no coming to the Holy Spirit in worship, but coming to God the Father by only way of the Son in worship as led by the indwelling Holy Spirit and scripture to do.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me..

You have to discern with Jesus Christ if He really meant what He has said or not in regards to how we are to come to God the Father in worship by and that is by the only way of the Son.

 

There is no question about the deity of the Holy Spirit as being One of the Three Witnesses within the One God, but His words specifically told us the only way to honor the Father was by honoring the Son and when you are not honoring the Son, you are NOT honoring the Father so that means there is no leeway to honor the Holy Spirit in worship.

Plus Jesus said the only way to come to God the Father is by coming to the Son in worship, prayer, and fellowship as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, the Savior, the Bridegroom, and Good Shepherd of our souls.

That is Whom the Holy Spirit and scripture is still pointing you, the bride, to keep coming to in relating to God the Father by..