I Believe In Free Will

The Early Church Father's definition of "free will" (free will/freedom of choice = human volition):

Justin Martyr wrote 135-165 A.D. 1:177 "And again, unless the human race have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions..." 1:177 "The words cited above, David uttered 1500 years before Christ... But lest some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever happens, happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain." 1:177 . The First Apology of Justin 43, 44.

Ignatius, disciple of John & bishop of Antioch 107 A.D. ~1:88 "Only you must pray for them, if by any means they may be brought back to repentance." Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 4.

Athenagoras 177 A.D. 2:142 "Just as with men, who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honour the good or punish the bad, unless and vice and virtue were in their own power" A Plea for Christians 24

Irenaeus, disciple of Polycarp & bishop of Lyons (177-202 A.D.) 1:347 "they [unbelievers] despise the workmanship of God, speaking against their own salvation.", 1:455 "[God] did indeed show Himself to be long-suffering in the matter of the correction of man and the probation of all" 1:456 "indicating that eternal fire was not originally prepared for man, but for him [Satan] who beguiled man, and caused him to offend" Against Heresies Book 1 ch.22.

Clement of Alexandria 193-217 A.D. 2:319 "Now the devil, being possessed of freewill

, was able both to repent and to steal;" 2:239 "So in no respect is God the author of evil. But since free choice and inclination originate sins" Stromata Book 1 ch.17. vol.2:239 "For to take fever is involuntary; but when one takes fever through his own fault, from excess, we blame him. Inasmuch, then as evil is involuntary, -for no one prefers evil as evil;...such being the case, to free ourselves from ignorance, and from evil and voluptuous choice, and above all, to withhold our assent from those delusive phantasies, depends on ourselves." The Instructor 2:1. 3:319 speaks well of the work Shepherd of Hermas. also last chapter.

"Everything then, which did not hinder a man’s choice from being free, He made and rendered auxiliary to virtue," Stromata 7:2


Tertullian 200-240 A.D. 3:220 "Still there is a portion of good in the soul, of that original, divine, and genuine good, which is its proper nature. For that which is derived from God is rather obscured than extinguished." 3:301 "Therefore it was proper that (he who is) the image and likeness of God should be formed with a free will and a mastery of himself; so that this very thing - namely, freedom of will and self-command - might be reckoned as the image and likeness of God in him." 3:303 No doubt it was an angel [Lucifer] who was the seducer; but then the victim of that seduction [Adam] was free, and master of himself;" 3:308 "Who is the author of good, but He who also requires it?" 3:308 "Behold, they [Marcionites] say, how He acknowledges Himself to be the creator of evil in the passage, ‘It is I who created evil.’ They take a word whose one form reduces to confusion and ambiguity two kinds of evils (because both sins and punishments are called evils), and will have Him in every passage to be understood as the creator of all evil things, in order that He may be designated the author of evil." Against Marcion chap. 14.

Origen (225 CE) writes: “The apostle in one place does not purport that becoming a vessel to honor or dishonor depends upon God [Rom. 9:21-22; a blatant rejection of Calvinistic thought]. Rather, he refers everything back to ourselves, saying, ‘If, then, a man purges himself, he will be a vessel to honor, sanctified, fit for the Master’s use, and prepared for every good work’

"This also is clearly defined in the teaching of the Church, that every rational soul is possessed of free-will and volition;" De Principiis Preface 5.

Hippolytus (225 CE) writes: “The Word promulgated the divine commandments by declaring them. He thereby turned man from disobedience. He summoned man to liberty through a choice involving spontaneity — not by bringing him into servitude by force of necessity "

Cyprian (250 CE) writes: “The liberty of believing or of not believing is placed in free choice.”

Novatian 254-256 A.D. 5:646 "For in reprobating what He [God] has made, He will appear to have condemned His own works, which He had approved as good; and He will be designated as seeming capricious in both cases, as the heretics indeed would have it;" On the Jewish Meats 2.

Alexander of Alexandria (324 CE) writes: “Natural will is the free faculty of every intelligent nature, as having nothing involuntary pertaining to its essence. A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, ed. David W. Bercot (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, Inc., 1998), 285-86, 288, 292-95.

Lactantius (304-313 CE), during those years, writes: “He who gives commandments for life should remove every method of excuse — so He can impose upon men the necessity of obedience. Not by any constraint, but by a sense of shame. Yet, He should do it in a way to leave them freedom, so that a reward may be appointed for those who obey. That is because it was in their power not to obey — for it was in their power to obey if they wished.”

Cyprian, bishop of Carthage 248-258 A.D. ~5:317 "watch against the snares of the devil, and, taking care for you own salvation, be diligently on your guard against this death-bearing fallacy." 5:357 "Keep discipline, lest haply the Lord be angry, and ye perish from the right way, when His anger shall quickly burn against you. And what shall Christ and our Lord and Judge think, when He sees His virgin, dedicated to Him, and destined for His holiness, lying with another?" 5:358 Nor let them think that the way of life or of salvation is still open to them, if they have refused to obey the bishops and priests.." Epistle 61.

Calvinist champion apologist, Loraine Boettner even admitted this much:

"It may occasion some surprise to discover that the doctrine of Predestination was not made a matter of special study until near the end of the fourth century. ... They of course taught that salvation was through Christ; yet they assumed that man had full power to accept or reject the gospel. Some of their writings contain passages in which the sovereignty of God is recognized; yet along side of those are others which teach the absolute freedom of the human will. ... They taught a kind of synergism in which there was a cooperation between grace and free will." The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination p.365.



TCassidy's definiton of "free will" (denial of the law of sin and death):

IOWs to say we have "free will" is to deny the Bible. Gee, thanks for finally setting the world straight on this terminology with this new and convenient idea of yours!

 

There is more of a consequence than the loss of reward; becoming a castaway is being denied to attend the Marriage Supper by Him because of unrepentant iniquity. Paul says so here in regards to running that race in living as His disciple to abide in Him.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So there is more of a consequence than just losing the reward of crowns; one can become a castaway; that is not about losing salvation, but their first inheritance of being like the angels that never die and having a mansion in the city of God. That is why Jesus referenced the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living, because he can never get that first inheritance back, but he is still son. So there is no loss of salvation, but a loss of that inheritance.

 

You have to prove everything by the scripture; even from the early church fathers.

We all are born in sin; we are all slated to die because of it. Free choice is hardly an issue about accountability for the actions of sinners in their lifetimes when they are going to die and go to hell regardless, because of original sin passed on.

John 3:18-21 testifies to how God the Father knows whom to draw unto the Son and whom not to draw to the Son. John 6:44 Indeed, unless the Father enables us to see the Son by revealing Him to us, we would never believe in Him. Matthew 11:25-27 So our believing in Him is a work of God also.

Once saved, a believer is accountable for what he sows towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit, but even then, if he looks to himself, to his will, to his flesh to do the right thing, he will find himself failing; we are to run that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin. Hebrews 12:1-2

What does it mean when God intervenes in an answer to prayer?

1 John 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Was Saul's will stopped by the Lord's appearing on his way to Damascus?

Is that akin to denying the power of Christ in how we live because it is not we who live, but Christ in us?

Since God has written the Book of Life and He has predestined as in having foreknowledge of whom will be saved, He has to have foreknowledge of whom will not believe in Him and is going to hell. Romans 9th chapter can be applied to that truth in how people and events were predestined as well as to the other truth that there will be unrepentant believers & former believers that will become children of wrath but received later on as vessels unto honor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ).

He & his angels are condemned to the lake of fire. I doubt he has free will to choose otherwise.

Irenaeus may consider that as scripture but it is not in the accepted scripture in the Bible.

God may not be the author of evil, but He can create evil in passing judgment as He has done on numerous occasions in dealing with the nation of Israel in their backsliding.

Stick to the scripture; the "early church fathers" commentaries are not always scripture, indeed, one may find heresy among their writings too so we are to prove all things by Him..

 

The clear point was and is that ‘free will’ has been defined as “human volition – the ability of choice” since the cows came home and about the ploy to redefine it. Stick to the point, save your strawman arguments that imply I look at the Early Church Father’s words as scripture, and please don’t expect me to chase down your entire Determinist’ system (fallacy of offering up smokescreens) to make this point of the error and fallacy in trying to force a definition on terminology against the meaning for which it is intended by the opposition. Try to keep up, eh?

 

Excellent post!

 

That's right, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Apart from Him you can't choose to enter. You can't remain. He is the one who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

 

Free will may be defined by the world as “human volition – the ability of choice” , and so it is circumspect that the church's fathers were influenced by the world's way of thinking rather than scripture.

Since we are to prove all things by Him by the accepted scripture, that includes the world's definition of "free will".

So where is the ability of choice here in that verse below in regards to man's fallen nature to sin?

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Why did Jesus spoke of the rich Jew who kept the law since his youth but he was unwilling to give his wealth away in following Him and then said how hard it was for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven for which His disciples asked incredulously "then who can be saved?" The He said "what is impossible with men, is possible with God" and in another place He said no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak".

So does the world's definition of free will pass scripture? I would say not.

 

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

 

We are chosen for service, We choose to accept salvation.

Jhn 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

We are not servants, They were chosen to be 12 disciples,

Jhn 6:70

¶
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Judas was not "chosen" for salvation

 

This is a mischaractaztion of free will. Free Will does not guarantee the possibility of every choice
To exist,

 

I say it's not. I say it's talking about Paul's experience as one under the law before salvation. Romans 6 had already said Christians have "died to sin" because of their union with Christ.Interesting that Calvinists are quick to discuss spiritual death as in if you're spiritual dead you can't do anything....And well Rom 6:7 says, "For he that is dead is freed from sin" Such is talking about the old man positionally speaking....IS DEAD. He says in Rom 6:14 "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

That being the case he's not going to go into reversing all he said in Rom 7 in talking about the struggle as what's to be considered expected as the normal Christian life. No, Paul had got into talking about what his position in the flesh was like before. Rom 7:1-4 reveals why Christians are no longer under the law and then he goes on to explain from Rom 7:5-25 why it's impossible for those under the law to be free from sin.

There's ONLY two groups spoken of here! One who are under the law (in the flesh) and ones who are under grace! (in the Spirit) There's nothing of ones who are a mixture of both! Therefore every Christian is free from sin from a positional standpoint. Sin shall not be the master of a believer at any time. They're alive from the dead. They're not in the flesh. Paul in 7 was talking about before he was saved.

His inward man the spirit not born again, not changed, still under the law wanted God and wanted to keep a righteous moral code thus he cried out O wretched man that I am! He swings over to then describe what a saved person not under the law but under grace should think of their position.

They're free from all that negative stuff of the spirit not gaining the mastery over the flesh. Read the first number of verses of chapter 8! I said all that to say this....Paul didn't know his need was Jesus but Paul under the law and before saved had a desire for God according to his will. His will wasn't tied up and one and the same with his nature. His spirit was crying out for freedom from the standpoint of his will...FREE WILL. Thus sets aside the idea of total depravity the way Calvinists would view it.

 

There are no Arminians on here. Only Pelagians and Semi-Pelagians.

 

If we notice, Luther has included the ability to act upon will, want and choices as part of Free Will. Free Will does not include the accuracy of our wishes, or even the knowledge of what we want. Those without a knowledge of Christ know the are wanting but until the Holy Spirit leads them to Jesus the want or desire is not fulfilled.
Luther has included the ability to act on a desire as free will. The action is evidence of free will but it is not free will.

Because one is not able to understand or has a knowledge or does not have the ability to act does not show there is no free will present. A prisoner held in a cell may want to escape but cannot does not mean there is no free will within. Conversely, the cell may be kept unlocked in the prisoner does not want to escape, or he has no will.

The inclusion of being helpless is the common thread of Luther's arguments, notice #13 Free Will is not an issue with Nicodemus, It is lack of understanding ,which may limit or choices but it does not show that free will does not exist.

If free will has changed meaning from the High German or Latin, to English in 500 years, i do not know, but it may be he was supposing a more legalistic stance of if there is no action the free will does not exist.

Free will exists without choice, knowledge or the ability to act on those choices.

I knew something was amiss by this thread

 

Judas Iscariot was not a believer in Jesus Christ; therefore the words of Jesus having chosen the ones He has chosen are dependent by abiding in His words, thus referring to another topic from how you were applying His words to mean, and thus not rightly so. That means His words applies to all believers meeting that condition in being His disciples by abiding in Him and His words. When a believer is keeping His commandments, that is how he knows he has been chosen by Him to be His disciples when bearing fruit; discipleship is not specifically referring to service, but for abiding in Him in following Him.

Jesus knows whom the Father has given Him that are His sheep to keep from the sheep that the Father has given Him that will not follow His voice but a stranger's voice since it was prophesied in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 to occur and so talked about in John 10:1-5 for why in context that, "fold that did not follow His voice but a stranger's voice" He must bring because they have His seal as they will be made to hear His voice literally as the King of kings after their resurrection at the end of the great tribulation and be of the one fold and one shepherd; John 10:16.

Something for you to prayerfully consider at that throne of grace with Him.

 

The word "chosen" is being misused for salvation. It is not.

Abiding is necessary for life, not abiding is spiritual death, Salvation is necessary to abide.

Rom 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The trouble with typing to a non Baptist is I do not know the basis on which to correct your legalism of works and election
.
One who subscribes to election cannot also defend on works. Contradictory doctrines

 

Do reconsider. If a church is to excommunicate an unrepentant believer for this purpose in 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 so that they can hold the feats of fellowship in sincerity and in truth in 1 Corinthians 5:8-11 for why they are to put out that wicked person in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 then what do you think the Bridegroom will do to unrepentant but yet still saved believers at the pre great trib rapture event? He will disqualify and excommunicate those unrepentant and yet saved believers from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven. What God teaches the churches to do.. He will do as the Bridegroom when He comes, because any iniquity on that foundation defiles the temple of God ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) and thus as that iniquity denies Him ( Titus 1:15-16 ) , they will be denied ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) but even former believers that did not repent that gets left behind are still saved because He still abides ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ) for why the call to depart from iniquity is even given to former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-21.

It is not about salvation but how God will judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture event in dealing with the falling away from the faith, signaling the end of the times of the Gentiles for when the disposition of the gospel will go back to the Jews, the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the coming great tribulation. You can't have Jesus warning the church at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25 to repent or else, be cast into the bed of the great tribulation unless God was warning the churches how He will judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture event.

So there is a fold that follows His voice; the chosen, separate from the ones He foreknew would fall away from the faith in following a stranger's voice ( John 10:1-5 ), but those not of the fold that follow His voice, He MUST bring as they will be made to hear His voice literally as their King of kings and be of the one fold and one shepherd because they are saved simply by believing in Him as promised. John 10:16

Again, prayerfully consider and discern with Him at that throne of grace for wisdom concerning this truth in His words.

 

There is no basis for communication, Your references are in error your logic thus is in error.

I realized you do not follow what I am typing also

What type of non Baptist? I can research and then relate

 

Beign a castaway would mean that one was proven to be not a real Christian, but one merely professing such. Again, ALL saved by God will be togather at the same time in the same place in heaven!