Is Mary Omini-present ?

There has been only one resurrection to date, that of Jesus Christ. If we search the Scriptures, in fact if we search secular history, we will read of only one person who died and came to life never to die again. That person was Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul preaching before King Agrippa declares:

Acts 26:22,23, KJV
22. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23. That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Jesus Christ, in prophecy and in history, was the first and only one to rise from the dead to die no more. It is true that the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, records accounts of people being raised from the dead:

1.The son of the widow of Zarephath restored to life by the prophet Elijah[1 Kings 17:22].
2. The son of the Shunammite woman restored to life by the prophet Elisha[2 Kings 4:35]..
3. The dead man restored to life at the touch of Elisha’s bones [2 Kings 13:21].
4. Jairus’ daughter restored to life by Jesus Christ [Matthew 9:25, Mark 5:22].
5. The son of the widow of Nain restored to life by Jesus Christ [Luke 7:15].
6. Lazarus of Bethany restored to life by Jesus Christ [John 11:44].
7. The disciple Tabitha, or Dorcas, of Joppa [Acts 9:40] was restored to life by the Apostle Peter.
8. The young man Eutychus [Acts 20:9-12] was restored to life by the Apostle Paul.

Although Scripture is silent about the further lives of these people, they did not have a resurrection body like that of Jesus Christ and they all died again consistent with Paul’s statement to King Agrippa. It is also true that Matthew 27:52,53 states that:

Matthew 27:52,53, KJV
52.And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53.And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

However, there is absolutely no indication in Scripture that these Saints possessed a resurrection body like that of Jesus Christ and that they ascended to heaven. It is my belief that these bodies returned to the grave to await the general resurrection. This interpretation is supported by the following Scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:23, KJV
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

Consenting to the possible resurrection of Moses denies the following Scripture:

Acts 26:22,23, KJV
22. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23. That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Agreed with OR

 

Matt 27:50-53 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C.Keith

 

There is nothing in Scripture that indicates these bodies did not go back into their graves. In fact unless you want to deny the following Scripture they had to:

Acts 26:22,23, KJV
22. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23. That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

There is a difference in being raised from the dead and being raised with a glorified body, a resurrection body, as I indicated in an earlier post.

 

Matt 27:52-53 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


These saints were resurrected after his, that is Christ’s resurrection. Moses however, would have had to been resurrected before Christ’s resurrection. Which, as is obvious from the fact that he appeared to Christ before Christ’s resurrection, he was. I do not believe that God puts those whom He has already taken to heaven, back to sleep. What did He do, wake Elijah and Moses back up to speak with Christ, and then put them back to sleep again? I don’t think so. These were special individuals that God deemed ready for heaven.


Heb 11:5 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.


Christ is the first fruits. Without His resurrection, there would be no other. In fact, without His resurrection there would have been no life at all after the fall in the garden.
Moses was an exception to the rule.


Exod 33:11-23 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.
14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
15 And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.
16 For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth.
17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Moses’ relationship with God, was unlike that of any other human being that ever lived, apart from Christ. He was the meekest man on earth, and was the friend of God. For this reason, I believe God decided to take Moses to be with Him in heaven.

Luke 9:30-31 30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Moses and Elijah appeared in glory, that is to say in their glorified bodies, which they received from God. I believe Moses, Elijah, Enoch, and others that Christ resurrected after his resurrection are in heaven now with Christ, and ever will be.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Enoch was taken up to be with God; he was not resurrected.

Jude tells us that there was a dispute about the body of Moses between the devil and Michael. There was no resurrection.

The appearance of Moses does not mean he was resurrected but simply that he and Elijah appeared to the 3 disciples on the Mt of Transfiguration.

There is no verse at all to support a view that Moses was resurrected. I assume you think he was resurrected because you believe in soul sleep; therefore, an appearance of Moses to the disciples means he was resurrected. The error of belief in soul sleep leads to error in belief that Moses was resurrected.

 

CHAP. 5 THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL


We shall begin this chapter with a biblical examination of the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. After which, we will discuss how this doctrine separates humanity from Christ, as do all the non biblical doctrines of the church of Rome.

1 Tim 6:14-16 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

As is obvious, from the above scriptures, if God alone has immortality, then the human soul cannot. The idea that every human being that is born into the world will exist for eternity from that point on, whether in the flesh, or in some other form, is not biblical. If in fact, there were no death, that is the end of life, nonexistence, then why do the scriptures make the promise of eternal life to the believer so very many times? This would be a silly promise to make to beings that are already immortal.

I Jn 5:10-12 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record,that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

God has given us eternal life through his Son. This is not something we posses in and of ourselves, but only as we believe in the Son of God. The Lord Jesus Christ, who became one of us, is also verily God, and therefore immortal. If we attach ourselves to him, then we to have immortality. This is not however, on account of anything in us, but only because we have accepted the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in our own lives, that the life of the Son might also be in us. Thus the believer inherits eternal life on account of the Son. ( Rom. 6:5-11 )

John 3:14-16 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

per·ish (pµr“¹sh) v. per·ished, per·ish·ing, per·ish·es. --intr. 1. To die or be
destroyed, especially in a violent or untimely manner. 2. To pass from existence; disappear gradually. 3. Chiefly British. To spoil or deteriorate. --tr. To bring to destruction; destroy. --idiom. perish the thought. Used to express the wish that one not even think about something.

The contrast made in the above verses cannot be mistaken. Those who believe in the Son of man will not perish, but will have eternal life. To perish, is to die, to be destroyed, to pass from existence. This truth is repeated two times in a row by the Son of God. The opposite of eternal life, is death, which is non existence. To perish, and to live on through eternity burning in hell, are two very different things. If you have life, then you are alive. It doesn't matter where you are, or what is happening to you, life is life. Non existence is not life. These two things are opposites, and the Lord Jesus Christ uses them to show the difference between believers, and non believers. Non believers will not have life in any form.

1 Cor 15:51-54 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The apostle Paul points out clearly when the saved will receive immortality. It is at the resurrection, that is the second coming of Christ, that the saved will receive immortality. Those who must receive immortality, obviously do not posses it in and of themselves. It is at Christ's appearing that death is swallowed up in victory, not before. True enough, eternal life is secure now, for all the saved, but eternal life will not begin until the appointed time.

Death is swallowed up in victory, when the dead are raised and changed from mortal to immortal at the second coming. If in fact, those who die in Christ go right to heaven to be with Christ for eternity, the above verses would make no sense at all. In fact, the bible would be filled with verses that make no sense at all. A biblical doctrine must be based upon the scriptures as a whole, not just a few verses here and there. While there are a few verses in the bible, that seem to suggest the possibility of the immortality of the soul, the scriptural evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

1 Cor 15:16-26 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Here again, the apostle Paul makes it clear, that if their is no resurrection, then all who have fallen asleep, (or died) in Christ are perished. Verse twenty two points out that as all have died in Adam, so will all be made alive in Christ. Verse twenty three points out when all will be made alive, at Christ's coming. The last enemy to be destroyed is death, which is destroyed at the second coming. Again, if the dead in Christ are already alive and in heaven with him, then the above verses not only make no sense, but are a lie. Either the scriptures which we have been discussing are a lie, or the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a lie.

Rom 6:22-23 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Verse twenty three brings out the contrast again, which cannot be mistaken. The wages of sin is death, which is non existence, not eternal life in hell. On the contrary, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Is God a cheap giver? Would he try to pass off on us something that we already have as a gift that we should appreciate so very much? Of course not. God is not a liar, and his word is the truth. Eternal life is a gift from God to the saved, not something that every individual already has in and of themselves. This is exactly the issue at hand, will we die from the sin of Adam and Eve in the garden or not? Pay attention to the following verses.

Gen 2:16-17 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:1-5 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This is the issue at hand. Is God a liar, or is Satan a liar? What do you think? The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is nothing more than the perpetuation of the first lie which Satan told to the human race. It is an affront to God, and an issue which God himself will address personally at his second coming, and again at the second resurrection. Make no mistake about it, the soul is not immortal. Those who refuse the gift of God in and through his Son, will not have life.

Those who accept this lie as the truth are calling God a liar, as the Devil did, and does continually, for he is the father of lies. To accept this doctrine as truth, is to undermine the authority of God, and separate oneself from him alone who hath immortality. I do not speak of those who believe it in ignorance, but those who refuse the truth of scripture in favor of that which they prefer to believe. Ignorance however, will be no excuse for those who have opportunity to know the truth, but do not care enough to find out about it.

John 8:44 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God alone has immortality. The original sin of Satan was that he wanted to be God, in his place. He may claim immortality for himself, and wish to perpetuate this lie through any means possible, but it will be to no avail. He will come to a complete end. As will all who follow his example. Anyone who claims that they have an immortal soul is defying God, just as Satan himself did, and does to this day. Are you God? If you say that your soul is immortal, then you are saying that you are God, since God alone hath immortality. What more can an individual do, to separate themselves from God? Notice the following.

Isa 14:12-15 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Satan is the father of this mind set. He is the original one who wanted to be like God, without being in submission to God. He wanted to be God. Therefore he loves and perpetuates the lie of the immortality of the soul. If in fact, he is immortal, then he is in fact God. All those who believe this mind set are following in his footsteps. Unlike God, Satan does not care how he gets followers, as long as he gets them. If he can trick people into following him by getting them to believe a lie, that’s fine. If he can get people to think that they are worshipping God, when they are really worshipping him, that’s great. Don't follow Satan unwillingly, by believing his lies.

The following scriptures are a dual prophecy concerning the king of tyrus and Satan. It is obvious from their content, that they refer to the devil himself, his fall from heaven, and his ultimate end.

Ezek 28:12-19 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Satan himself will be no more. So will be the fate of all who refuse the gift which God is offering them through his son. Do not allow Satan to separate you from Christ, through whom you have eternal life, by believing this doctrine of the church of Rome.

 

CHAP. 6 SLEEP OF THE DEAD


If the soul is not immortal, just what does happen when someone dies? Let us examine the scriptures to see what they say about this important subject.

Eccl 9:5-10 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

According to Solomon, the wisest man on earth, the dead know not anything. All of their feelings, emotions, and knowledge are perished. For all intentional purposes then, they basically do not exist, which is what death is, non existence. The bible however, refers to the dead in a more politically correct way, if you will, one that is easier for us to accept. The bible refers to the dead as being asleep from one end of it to the other. This is a fit description, since sleep is a state of unconsciousness. A person that is sleeping has no awareness at all of what is going on in the world around them, nor are they able to participate in anything in the world around them.

Job 14:10-15 10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Job referred to the dead as sleeping. He even referred to the resurrection, when the Lord would call forth those in the grave. The change he speaks of in verse fourteen is no doubt the change from mortal to immortal at Christ's second coming.

Dan 12:1-2 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel also spoke of the dead as asleep. Verse two is unquestionably a reference to the resurrection at the second coming.

Ps 13:3 3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;]/b]

David also referred to death as a sleep. All through the old testament those who died were referred to as sleeping with their fathers. The same terminology is used in the new testament, and even by Christ himself on both occasions when raising the dead.

Luke 8:52-56 52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
56 And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

John 11:11-15 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

Jesus did not say that either of the people he raised from the dead were in heaven, or hell, but simply that they were asleep. Notice what Martha said to Jesus when he went to her and Mary to raise their brother from the grave.

John 11:20-25 20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Martha understood that the those who sleep in the grave will be called forth from the grave in the last day at the resurrection. Jesus told her, " I am the resurrection, and the life " and then proceeded to prove it by raising her brother, who had been in the tomb for four days. This same thing Jesus will do again for all those who have died in him, when he returns again. Observe the following.

1Thes 4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

In the above scriptures concerning the resurrection, the apostle Paul refers to the dead as sleeping three times. In the previous chapter we quoted some other verses from Paul’s writings that also addressed the resurrection, the dead are referred to as sleeping in these verses also. As previously stated, in order to establish a biblical doctrine, the scriptures must be considered in their entirety. Anyone can take just a few verses, and make them say whatever they wish. Although there are a few verses that seem to suggest that the dead are conscious, the overwhelming weight of scriptural evidence from one end of the bible to the other is to the contrary. These few verses are being misunderstood, and miss applied.

It is of course a doctrine of the church of Rome, that the dead go to heaven, hell, or purgatory at death. The writer will not even waste any time addressing the false doctrine of purgatory. However, by teaching that the saints are alive and in heaven now, the church of Rome again separates humanity from Christ. Those who accept her teachings, pray to certain of the Saints, Mary in particular. By praying to the dead, these deluded souls have been separated from the only one who can hear and answer their prayers, the Lord Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone who mediates between man and God the Father in his sanctuary in heaven. The bible condemns communication with the dead for a very good reason. As already pointed out, the dead know not anything. This being the case, those who think they are communicating with the dead, must really be communicating with someone else. That someone else is certainly not God, for he condemns the act. To be sure, Satan and his angles will answer as the dead to those wishing to communicate with the dead, whenever God himself allows it.

Lev 19:31 31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Lev 20:6 6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Deut 18:10-12 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

1 Chr 10:13-14 13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
14 And inquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

One of the reasons God allowed Saul to be killed, and turned his kingdom over to David, was because he sought communication with the dead. It is obvious from this incident, that one who seeks communication with the dead, is not seeking communication with God. Nor is it God who answers the prayers of one who prays to the dead. Since the Devil is the father of this lie, that is the immortality of the soul, it is only right, that if anyone, he should answer those who accept this lie by seeking communication with the dead.

Isa 8:19-20 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The present Pope believes that Mary saved his life when an attempt was made to assassinate him years ago. He leans heavily upon her intercession for his church, and humanity as a whole. Mary is dead, she knows not anything, and is incapable of doing anything for anybody. Millions of Roman Catholics around the world are praying to dead people that cannot help them in any way. They should be praying to the Lord Jesus Christ, who is able to save to the uttermost, all who call upon his name. Sadly, they have been taught to rely upon others. No doubt, Satan himself will and does do all he can to support this lie, for he is the father of it.


Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

All Bible scholars agree that Jude is quoting from the book "The ASSUMPTION of MOSES" in the reference to the dispute between Michael and Satan.

To ignore that fact is to ignore "the assumption of Moses" into heaven as a result of that bodily resurrection.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Soul sleep is proven to be false doctrine by the following Scripture:

Lule 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Philippians 1:21-26
21.For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24. Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
26. That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

Now unless you can refute the resurrection of Jesus Christ or prove that Paul is a liar then the concept of soul sleep is a false doctrine out of the pit of hell.

 

All Bible scholars agree that Jude is quoting from the book "The ASSUMPTION of MOSES" in the reference to the dispute between Michael and Satan.

To ignore that fact is to ignore "the assumption of Moses" into heaven as a result of that bodily resurrection.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]I thought all Scripture was given by inspiration of the God, not Bible scholars!

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

Will you completely ignore the fact that the bible refers to the dead as sleeping over and over again. Even Christ himself did the same. There is an overwhelming weight of scriptural evidence supporting what I have been sharing with you. Nevertheless, you choose these two obscure verses to support what you want to believe the scriptures say, instead of believing what they really say. I tell you the truth, choosing to believe what you want to believe, rather than what the bible clearly teaches, is straight from the pit of hell. All who do such, will have no part of eternity.


II Th 2:8-12 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I can at least understand how you could believe what you do, having been taught such all your life, and their being a few obscure scriptures which seem to support this lie from Satan himself. What I cannot understand is how you say that what I believe is straight from hell, when what I believe is supported by a far greater amount of scriptural evidence than what you believe.

Luke 23:43 "43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

The original language that the new testament was written in, did not use punctuation's. The commas in this verse and others, were added when translated to English. The person who made this translation, apparently believed that the dead go straight to heaven or hell. Because of this, he placed the comma before the words to day instead of after them. If one were to place the comma after the words to day it would completely change the meaning of the verse. It would simply mean that Christ was telling the thief on that day, that he would be in paradise with him. This would be a more accurate and biblically sound rendering of the verse.

We know that Christ is not a liar. Therefore He could not have been telling the thief that on that day he would be with Christ in paradise, for Christ did not ascend to His Father until after His resurrection. He himself said so.

John 20:16-17 "16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

The Lord Jesus Christ was in the grave, that is the heart of the earth for three days, just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and nights. Jonah's description of his experience in the belly of a whale is certainly no description of paradise, nor does it seem to depict a place of eternal torment. Yet this experience was said by Christ to be a sign for those who were seeking proof of Christ's divinity, that is that He would be delivered from the power of the grave, or death.

Matt 12:39-40 "39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Apart from this, it is very unlikely that the thief on the cross died on this same day that Christ did. One who was crucified usually did not die for days. This is one of the things that made the punishment so terrible. Christ, as we know, died of a broken heart.

John 19:31-34 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

Notice what Christ says in the following verses.

John 14:1-3 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

In verse three Christ says that He will come again and receive us unto Himself. This is a clear reference to his second coming, at which time we will all be gathered togehter to be with Him forever more. Christ did not say, when you die you will be with me, he said when I come again, I will receive you unto myself. Bye for now.

I am running out of time. I will address Phil. 1:21-26 later.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Old Regular:

Departing and Being with Christ

When writing to the Philippians, what desire did the apostle Paul express?
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better." Phil. 1:23.

What were the two conditions between which the apostle was thus in difficulty?
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Phil. 1:21.

What does he mean by the words "to depart?"
"The time of my departure is at hand." 2 Tim. 4:6.

What was sure to the cause of Christ, whether Paul lived or died?
"Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death." Phil. 1:20.

In what other words does he express the same sentiment?
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Phil. 1:21.
NOTE. - Gain, not to himself, but to the cause of Christ, as stated in the verse before.

What, then, inclined Paul to the side of life?
"Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." Phil. 1:24.

What inclined him to prefer to depart, or lay down this life?
"To depart and to be with Christ, which is far better." Phil. 1:23.

How long after his departure before he would be with Christ?
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:16, 17. See 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Tim.4:7, 8.

If none go to be with Christ till after the resurrection, how would it have been better for Paul, so far as he was concerned, to depart then, rather than live on?
As no cognizance is taken of the lapse of time, after a person becomes unconscious in death (Eccl. 9:5; Ps. 146:4), though 2,000 years should elapse before Paul's resurrection, it would seem to him but the twinkling of an eye.

 

Old Regular:


The great teacher, the apostle Paul, clearly understood that he, too, would sleep in the grave until the second coming of Christ: “For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure [death] is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day : and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His [Christ’s] appearing.” (II Tim. 4: 6- 8). Paul knew, as did Martha, that not until the resurrection of the last day, at the second coming of Christ, would he receive the reward of eternal life and be changed from mortality to immortality. Remember, it was Paul who told us in the Sacred Word that mortal man will not put on immortality until the last trumpet blast that calls forth the righteous dead at the coming of Jesus: “Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [for some will be living when Christ comes], but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [the Virgin Mary also], and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality [Please notice when this happens— not at death, but at the second coming of Christ].” (I Cor. 15: 51- 53). Earlier in the chapter, Paul stated: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Christ] came also the resurrection of the dead . For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive . But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming .” (I Cor. 15: 20- 23).

You may be asking yourself the question: “How can the Virgin Mary be alive when the Bible so clearly tells us there is no consciousness in death?” To further establish the point, let us look at a few more Scriptures that prove that man is mortal. In the Book of Job, we read: “Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost [breatheth out; Strong’s Concordance], and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more [the heavens roll back at Christ’s second coming (Rev. 6: 14)], they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” (Job 14: 10- 12). And if that weren’t clear enough, Job continues: “If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come . Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee.” (Job 14: 14, 15). Obviously, Job believed that he would sleep in the grave until Jesus called him out on Resurrection Morning. (See also Job 17: 13- 16). After all, it was Jesus who spoke of death as a sleep when referring to Lazarus’s state. He never once implied that Lazarus had gone to heaven, but, on the contrary, said, “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep.” (John 11: 11). Then in John 11: 23, Jesus tells Martha, “Thy brother shall rise again,” and Martha responds, “I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus, in calling Lazarus from the tomb, said, “Lazarus, come forth (John 11: 43),” not “Lazarus, come up!” or “Lazarus, come down!” I believe that Jesus’ use of the word sleep is a very appropriate synonym when used in place of the word death (the first death), because the word implies a temporary state— a state from which every soul “shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt [the second death (see Rev. 20: 12- 14)].” (Daniel 12: 2).

 

The Bible over and over again teaches that death is a sleep.


Jn:11:11: These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Jn:11:12: Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

Jn:11:13: Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.


Acts:7:60: And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

1Cor:15:6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Cor:15:18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Cor:15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


1Thes:4:13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thes:4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Thes:4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2Pt:3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Mt:9:24: He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

Mk:5:39: And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Lk:8:52: And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

Job:14:12: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

 

How many "sleeps" do you need, anyway?