Being Slain in the Spirit? Part Two

Yes they fell down.
My son fell down (off the top of a slide,) and lay there as dead. He had broken his ankle. I guess he was slain in the spirit.
My daughter fell down the stairs. She was stunned for a minute as she lay there "as one dead." I guess she was slain in the spirit.
My wife has siatica. She was unable to move a while ago--as one that was dead. I guess she was slain in the spirit.
My wife had to have surgery. She was put under an anasthetic. She was as dead. I suppose that is slain in the spirit.
For that matter everyone of us fall into our beds and are slain by the spirit as we pass out into sleep each night. We become as dead people.
DHK

 

First of all, lets clear this up!

Bible Boy saidMarch 10,2006, 9:41 AM}

2. Fully explain how what I said abuses the text of Scripture by engaging in eisegesis. FYI eisegesis means that someone has added outside words or meanings, which are clearly not present in the actual text, in order to force a particular interpretation upon the said text so that they can maintain their presupposition (in this case regarding a doctrinal position).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then Tam said:Eisegesis is the approach to Bible interpretation where the interpreter tries to "force" the Bible to mean something that fits their existing belief or understanding of a particular issue or doctrine. People who interpret the Bible this way are usually not willing to let the Bible speak for itself and let the chips fall where they may. They set off with the up-front goal of trying to prove a point they already believe in, and everything they read and interpret is filtered through that paradigm. Stated another way, they engage in what the Bible refers to as "private interpretation".

The way I understand it, it is not adding outside sources to prove your point. But of course we must use ONLY the Bible, and that's what I have done.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then on March 10, 2006, 4:17 PM, Bible Boy said:Then your understanding of the term is flawed. No one said anything about using an outside source (such as a Bible Commentary or other book written by a Theological Scholar).

You have said 2 different things. First you said it was using outside words and meanings and then you said it wasn't. Which is it?

As far as showing correct scriptures for SITS, I'm working on it. Give me awhile!

Peace,

Tam

 

DHK, I wish you hadn't posted that...

It just gave me flashbacks of the time I was SITSised by my first (AND LAST) attempt at roller-skating...

...and the time I was hit by SITS while riding pushbike...skin off knees, shoulder, cut forehead, broke glasses and half of front tooth...

I think I'll go get some SITS sleep now and try not to think about those events...

 

Tam

I read you post and it is your best one so far.

Notice the insincerity and lack of respect for the Holy Spirit that some make with respect to the truth of falling out under the mighty power of God Himself.

I am very careful for the names and reality of the Godhead. This is called reverence toward the Lord and His Being.

The Lord will deal with those who mock His Being and His ways in dealing with the people of God. He may have already started . . .

 

He has not said anything two different things. You fail to understand what he has said.
There is nothing wrong with using a commentary, as they sometimes help to clarify a passage especially if they help you to understand the Greek or the words in question.
But here is an example of eisegesis done commonly by the RCC.

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
--Notice the promise of salvation "and thy house."
Salvation is clearly "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." Belief is necessary. But the RCC demands that there were infants in the house. There must have been. Paul went to the house. He preached the gospel where the household of the jailor was saved, and then baptized. Of course, say the RCC, the infants were baptized too. This is their justification for infant baptism. Nice "eisigesis isn't it? It is reading into the Scripture that which is not there. There is absolutely no evidence of any infant in the household. You can't read into the Scripture those things that are not there.
This is what you are doing when it comes to being slain in the Scripture. You are reading into the Scripture things that are not there. You are accomodating what happened in the Bible to what is happening in our culture today--something that obviously never happened in the Bible. And that is what people on the board are trying to show you. You can't read into the Scripture those things that never happened.
DHK

 

DHK and Bible Boy. I stand corrected. The way you explain it, I am wrong. So, I bow to your explanation about exegesis.

Peace,

Tam

 

Acts 26-14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

The scripture above shows us that Gods power can overwhelm a person, so that they fall to the ground.
However, just because you are knocked down, does not always mean that God will do something to. or for you.

Acts 9-7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

The men were knocked down too (Acts 26-14), but they saw nothing.

Now we will go to a different scripture.

John 18-6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

They were unsaved sinners, so even though they fell under the power of God, nothing else happened to them at all. They simply got up, arrested him and took him away.

John 18-12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,
13 And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.

But now let us look at 2 Chronicles 5-11 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place: (for all the priests that were present were sanctified, and did not then wait by course:
12 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets

2 Chronicles 5-14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

Here, (in the scripture above) we see that men of God were overcome by the Glory. There were 120 of them. Did they all fall? We do not know. The scripture just says the priests "could not stand" to minister.

So what have I shown with these scriptures? I have shown that the power/Glory of God can make sinners and saints alike fall to the floor (earth). Sometimes they get up unchanged. Sometimes, (in the case of Paul) there is a great change.

So I have not changed, added to nor taken away from scripture. I have simply shown that at various times in the bible, people fell.

I think what one of the problems is the phrase "slain in the Spirit" As I have said before, I prefer "fall under the power". But thats just me.

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

Tam,

Good points. The Lord is still at work through His Holy Spirit and I do not try to tell Him how to minister into the lives of various people. But, I see Him at work and have missionary friends on the other side of the world--where He is busy while I sleep.

 

True you have not changed anything. But none of those events can be construed as being slain in the spirit. As I responded to Music4Him's post, who posted most of the same passages, the conditions were entirely different and are not repeated today.
For example, to use Saul as an example is really ludicrous when one thinks of all that happened to him. What happened to Saul has never happened to any other man in history.
1. He saw a light that blinded him, such that he had to be led the rest of the way to his destination. Does that happen to people slain in the spirit?
2. The blinding light was accompanied by the very voice of Jesus with whom he carried on a conversation. Does that happen today when people are slain in the spirit.
3. The light was bright enough to stike him off his horse (if riding one). The fact that he was blinded and the very brightness of it would cause any person to stumble and fall. He couldn't see where he was going. It was like groping in the dark.
4. Nevertheless, it was at this time (apparently before he went blind that he did have a vision of Jesus--the resurrected Christ). Do people slain in the spirit have this experience?
5. Jesus identified himself in a very personal way to him, and gave him very specific instructions. And then he was led by the hand to Ananias where he was baptized, and could see once again. Please don't compare of any of these supernatural events to being slain in the spirit.

Likewise if you go through all the Scripture that you and Music4Him have posted, you will find supernatural phenomena that is not repeated today, accompanying the events that you refer to. It doesn't happen today. It is not repeatable.
DHK

 

DHK,

Another thing to ponder on the story of Paul's experience there on Damascus Road.

Paul had the wherewithal to carry on a conversation with the Lord audibly. Paul heard and answered questions. Paul spoke audibly to the Lord.

People who are supposedly 'Slain in the Spirit' are not talking audibly while laying around from what I see in churches today.

 

One of the most important lessons that the Lord can teach us is that various kinds of people are doing the Lord's work.

To deny the experience of good Christians, some of whom have fallen under the power of the Holy Spirit is pure folly. Just as we were not all saved through the same means, preaching, witnessing, teaching, studying the Word, so too God the Spirit interacts with His people in different ways. This is basic truth not accepted by some denominational men and women. It's their denominational way of doing it or others are not genuine believers. This merely gives them the 'Pharisaic complex' thinking they and their small flock are the only ones who enjoy the untold blessings of the Holy Spirit.

 

I have yet to see concrete proof taken from scripture instead of man's philosophical reasoning that man fell backwards when accepting a touch from the Lord.

 

Bible-boy,

.

You said, 'I am glad that we agree what constitutes eisegesis vs. exegesis of the Scriptures. Now hopefully we can also agree that eisegesis is an unacceptable hermeneutical method that causes flawed biblical interpretations resulting in false teachings.'

.
edited because of personal attack.
Please address the topic of the thread, not the poster.

[ March 11, 2006, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

2 great posts B-b, I just deleted what I've been typing here because (as usual) you covered all better than I ever could

 

Tam,

Your passage from II Chronicles is one that I noticed many years ago. The Lord said, '. . . the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord had filled the House of God.

This is perhaps the best example as to men of God who recognized the mighty power of God the Holy Spirit. When I fell under the power of the Spirit no one touched me, blew on me, or prayed over me speaking in tongues. As I have been trying to tell these non-believers in this power of the Holy Ghost, that God does not always minister in the same way. Sometime people place their hand on another person to bless them and at other times they do not.

We will seldom change the mind of a person who is caught in the web of incorrect Christian teaching. Only the Lord can change their minds, especially if they experience His overpowering blessing.

I have seen this over and over again. If a denomination teaches against this experience, their trainees, men or women studying for ministry, cannot believe it because this would be going against denominational rules, and these students and pastors in churches already do not want to leave their denominations. They stay with the denominational ship rather than being guided by the Word of God--the Bible.

It is not only over this issue but Presbyterians or Reformed Episcopalians will never or at least seldom dare to believe in a more Arminian theology because they are training them in Calvinism. They wrongly believe they are somehow keeping a kind of 'purity of Christian doctrine' and do not allow the men to see all sides of theology, nor are they allowed to preach it.

Anyway, notice, if the priests in the Temple could not stand there, they would have fallen to the floor. IF I recall correctly, in another place it says that the power of God was so great there that they could not even enter the Temple.

 

2 Chronicles 5:13-14 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

So this is what happened to you Ray? Astounding!!
The O.T. Shekinah glory so surrounded you that you were not able to stand to minister. It was the brightness of the glory of God that prevented them from ministering (as the text says), for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.
Let me ask you Ray: Where is the house of God today? Where is the temple of God today? Can you get that one right? Most people don't.
The answer is found in 1Cor.6:19,20 if you want a clue.
Does the shekinah glory surround that temple, so bright that no one can look upon it?
Now, that I would like to see!!
But I guess I won't because because it will be too bright to look upon, right?
DHK