Featured Spurgeon On Calvinism Definite Atonement

Hi David;
All my answers will be in blue.

These verses are all true but they do not pertain to perseverance of the saints Actually these insure that once we believe we are saved and will be forever I'm sorry but you haven't proven Calvinism to be true Don't be discouraged. I'm sure you believe in Christ but you do need to study scripture. Are you sure your a Calvinist.
MB

 

MY answers are in blue

 

His disciples. The 12.

 

John 10:11 does not end with "not for the world."

 

Unfortunately that means I can't quote your answers since you didn't make a separate post. But that being said I will try to address them.

Acts 28:28 has nothing to do with what we are talking about with regard to John and what it means to be of God. Of God is talking about the elect so please show how Acts 28 is relevant to the discussion from your point of view.

God is not sovereign? You have left orthodox Christianity.

The John 13 verse, yes, he is speaking to the 12. But not all of the 12 are chosen. That is a principle that is not just shown with the 12 but throughout Scripture and applies to all.

Please explain, in your view, how John 17 does not show limited atonement.

In your last statement, you say that the verses do not show preserving grace. Then you explain that they, in fact, do show preserving grace. Do you know what preserving grace even means? It means eternal security.

See above

I never said that it did.

 

Let's be honest. You must not be to familiar with what you claim you believe. Total depravity is not supported by the verses you presented
God is not sovereign? You have left orthodox Christianity.

I have never been a calvinist and Calvinism is not orthodox which is why I argue against it.

Your wrong All of the twelve were chosen.
Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, "I chose you, the Twelve, didn't I? Yet one of you is a devil."
Joh 6:71 Now he was speaking about Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, because this man was going to betray him, even though he was one of the Twelve.

 

I think what you have shown is that you don't actually know what Calvinism is or what it teaches. That is very evident from your rebuttals. You don't understand any of the five points.

 

I didn't expect that you don't even know the tulip. For your education.
Total Depravity:

Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.

The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."

Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).



Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out," (John 6:37).

Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

Does this describe Calvinism?
MB

 

I didn't say you couldn't copy and paste, I said you don't understand it. I can copy and paste quantum physics but that doesn't mean I understand it.

 

it describes the truth that is repeatedly taught in the Scriptures.

 

Are you the same poster that posted that incredibly ridiculous video on John 6:44?

 

I did not post any videos. But since you brought it up Jn. 6:44 does not in any way support Calvinism.
MB

 

John 6:44 shows Radical Depravity (we can't choose unless called), Sovereign Election (Those who will be saved will be called, drawn) Irresistible Grace (Christ will raise up those who are drawn) and Preserving Grace (He will raise those up, it's a done deal)

 

I understand it and is why I do not believe in it. You are unable to support it with scripture and that is causing you to attack me personally and not my doctrine by insinuating that I do not understand something so simple. No sir your personal attack does not win debates. Only what is scriptural is all that is important. The doctrines of Calvinism are not supported by scripture.
MB

 

I am not attacking your personally. I attacked your posts which show you do not understand calvinism. I have more than supported it with Scripture, you tried to refute, and I showed you to be in error on your refutation. You then attack me saying I don't know what I believe. I have given plenty of Scriptural support none of which you have actually refuted with any measure of success.

 

Take a good look at it; We are not called to Salvation we are drawn,
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus says:
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
It is Jesus Christ that saves us.Although Christ and God are the same God

Show me where scripture says Sovereign Election. There simply is no such thing in scripture. That means it's the idea of man, not God Yes there is election but we are chosen apart from the Jews unless of course you are Jewish. There is not one Gentile in scripture that is ever called elect.

Wrong. Irresistible grace means man has no choice in his own Salvation, which is not scriptural.

The two words Persevering grace in English is saying "work Grace" Calvinism is so messed up that it cannot even name their doctrines properly. The very name means something else according to you.
MB

 

What in the world do you think draw means?

Logical error. Trinity isn't in the Bible either but I assume you believe there is a Trinity, yes?

Cannot name their doctrines properly? Means something else according to me? Preserving grace means work grace? How do you figure that?

 

This sentence make no sense. How can an attack from you tell you anything about me.

 

I think you'll find He was. 'For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men.......' (Romans 1:18).

God did not give His Son for everyone; He gave Him for the 'whosoevers.'