Saved, Lost, Saved Again.

I will reiterate - that is impossible. Paul told us that if you recant, you cannot be "re-saved". You can backslide, but if you fall away, you have rejected salvation and cannot be renewed once again. This is why we must contend for the faith, work out our salvation with fear and trembling. You CAN lose your salvation and if you do, you cannot come back again.

Heb 6: For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age,
6 and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Read the passage again. It only states that one cannot be renewed to repentance, not that one becomes unsaved!

 

huh?

 

stever wrote:
Then why does Jesus tell Nicodemus "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."(John 3:5)? And also tells him he should know this!

eloidalmanutha:
New covenant

 

stever wrote:
Then why do animals need to be sacrificed as you say to forgive sin?...

eloidalmanutha:
Old covenant

 

stever wrote:
IF God considered all saints forgiven by the blood of Christ BEFORE the blood of Christ was literally shed, then there is no need for any animal sacrifices at all. God would just have told them they were forgiven because Messiah is going to be sacrificed on your behalf.

Better yet, they did not even need to know. He could have just said "forgiven".

You have made the Word of God and His animal sacrifices unnecessary with your approach to the foreknowledge of God.


eloidalmanutha:
many OT saints were forgiven sin with no sacrifice. The sacrificial system was not implemented until 1500 BC when God chose Israel to be His chosen people to set an example for the nations. It was prophetic of the Messiah to come to fulfill God's perfect plan for a sin sacrifice. So the animals became the sacrifice [old covenant]for sin until the Perfect Sacrifice for sin in Jesus [new covenant] was met.


steaver wrote:
You have made the Word of God and His animal sacrifices unnecessary with your approach to the foreknowledge of God.

eloidalmanutha:
I am curious with this statement, as you have continued to maintain that the sacrifice of animals was not enough to forgive sin and therefore salvation was not available.

 

</font>[/QUOTE]hmm Steaver said "Paradise is NOT heaven" but the Bible says 'IT IS'.

Seems like an easy choice to me.

Where does the Bible say "Paradise is NOT heaven" as Steaver said? Nowhere?

Since there are only 3 texts that actually mention Paradise - this just can't be that hard to figure out.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Back to this subject --

There is no such thing as "a better state of being lost" that the Bible urges us to "STAY IN" or "NOT to FALL from such a glorioust state of being lost just not lost in a really really bad way"

 

OBVIOUSLY you can be saved at one point when you fully give yourself to God but then lose your salvation, if you have to do "these things" (read all previous verses -1-9) to "make your calling and election sure" and gain an entrance into heaven

2Pt:1:
10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall
11: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

And by denying that you can be saved then lost again, you are in effect saying that these verses about TODAY "harden not your hearts" are not actually relevant.


God is warning us that EACH DAY we need to make sure we are still in the faith, or else you can be "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin"

Hebrews 3:
12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13: But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14: For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15: While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.


You are also in effect saying that you are so special that you dont need to take heed lest you fall. Just like the Pharisees who thought themselves to be the "favorites" of heaven and therefore could NEVER be cast aside by God.

1Cor:10:12: Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

THIS is exactly the attitude of those who have the "I can never be lost" mentality.

"We be Abraham's seed" and we be so special that we can never be cast aside by God...


Jn:8:

31: Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

33: They answered him, We be Abraham's seed


Well it doesnt work that way.

Claudia

 

claudia,

nicely put - I was wondering what your perception is on OT salvations - got any comments?

thanx

 

However - one little detail - when one backslides, they are still in danger of being lost - as Gal 5 says - long list of things that if you are involved in that will cause loss of salvation aka you will not be part of the Kingdom of God. That you repented was the grace of God, and only His grace.

 

steaver,

NO I wont give a testimony about it because I dont like praising the devil and reveling in the past.

But yes, I had wandered far away from God, thats why in the parable of the prodigal son it says "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry." Lk:15:24:

When you're in the pig pen you arent at the Father's house. You are DEAD, you are LOST.

Recall that the son had taken his father's inheritance and went off to go do some riotous living:

Luke 15:
12: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13: And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

He had once been a son at the Father's house, meaning he was saved... then LOST... then came back and was "found".

Thats enough of a testimony.

But I am all too well aware of the times when I have gone away from God and I full well know I was not in a "saved" condition at all.


Claudia

 

eloi,

This sums it up for me:

The Gospel in the Old Testament

In what condition did the sin of Adam place the human family?
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12.

How does the offer of salvation come to all?
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18.

Is there any other way to obtain salvation?
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12.

Through what are men saved?
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8.

By what were the patriarchs to receive the promises of God?
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," Romans 4:16.

What did the prophets teach concerning justification through faith?
"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." Habakkuk 2:4.

Through whom did the prophets teach should come the remission of sins?
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43.

Did Abraham possess this faith?
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Romans 4:3.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." John 8:56.

How did Abraham have a view of Christ's day?
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8.

Whose children are all that believe?
"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7.

What did faith in Christ enable Moses to do?
"By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward." Hebrews 11:24-26.

From what source did the children of Israel draw spiritual life?
"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:2-4.

Where must the gospel hope have been learned, before the New Testament was written?
"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" John 5:46,47.

Who inspired the Old Testament writers in their declarations?
"Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." 1 Peter 1:10,11.

From what did Christ preach the gospel to His disciples when on the way to Emmaus?
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:27.

Who is both author and finisher of the plan of salvation?
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2.

 

steaver:

Even this verse makes it quite obvious that one can be saved then lost and if he does not repent the light he once had will be withdrawn and he will be lost.

Rv:2:5: Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

Lk:11:35: Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.