Premillennialism, Amillennialism, and Post-?

The wonderful truth is that most of the time - as in this case with Matt 24 - the battle to present the correct doctrine is won by simply pointing out the obvious in the chapter that even a child would get.

 

Still you have to wonder why so much of Christ's teaching and the NT teaching is centered on end-time events.

Obviously we can not change history nor can we reshape God's plans for the future - but He sure is focused on getting this message across.

Look at Matt 24 in its exquisite detail that many must reject just to hold to their traditions.

1Cor 15, Rev 19-21 etc all of them wonderful sequences "to be rejected" by those whose traditions "don't allow for the text to be true as it reads".

Having bend twist and rework massive sections of a chapter just so you can accomodate a tradtion's bending of one small text is "a clue" for the saints.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I can walk through the sequence of Matt 24 and Rev 19-21 saying "yep that is exactly the sequence I have been taught".

Ed walks through them and at the end says "but of course I have to find a way to rework the sequence we see in these entire chapters".

And that is "the difference".

 

What sequence do you find in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2?
1 Thessalonians chapter 4?
Revelation 1-21?
2 Corinthians chapter 15?
2 Peter chapter 3?

I find support in all these locations
for my eschatology.

Here is my evangelical presentation of
the JUDGEMENT of GOD:
---------------------------------------------
Five Judgements

The Lord God is a judging God

"To judge" can mean three things in the Holy Bible:

A. to discern between good and evil (human function)
B. to condemn, usually falsely (human function)
C. to reward the just & punish the evil (Godly function)

The Five Judgements:

1. Believers for SIN on the Cross
WHO: All who will Believe
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a merciful God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

How to get from judgement 1 to judgement 2
(and avoid judgements 3, 4, or 5):

Romans 10:9 (KJV): "That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved."

2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

3. Judgement of Yisrael under Antichrist
(Ezekiel 22:17-22 Time of Jacob's Trouble; Ezekiel 20:34-38;
Jeremiah 30:1-24; Revelation 6-19)
WHO: Yisrael
WHEN: during the Tribulation
WHERE: earth
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Great Tribulation

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goats judgement, Matthew 25:31-46,
2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15)
WHO: the nations: the living survivers of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed to Hell; the blessed to the Millennial Age

5. Great White Throne judgement
(Revelation 20:11:15)
WHO: the wicked dead
WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
judgements above does not preclude other specific
or general judgements. One place on the net i found
a chart where TWENTY-FOUR judgements were delineated.
The Lord God is a judging God and His hand is not shortened
by His revelation to us nor
by our understaning of His revelation to us.

May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

--compilation by ed,
incurable Jesus Phreaque

 

I agree that scriptures spend a lot of time on eschatological issues. But I do not believe the intent was to provide clues for believers to figure out a sequence of events.

You are welcome to engage in that exercise as many Christians have done through the ages. I just believe it has little value.

 

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Opps Ed,
Ya hit another snafu. Youve got the elect being raptured before the tribulation.

Matthew 24:21-22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Here we find the trib being shortened for the elects sake.

Seems youre gonna have to invent 2 "elects"

This reminds me of a song

5 resurrections
4 day of the Lords
3 four winds blowing
2 sets of Gods elect
And a partridge in a pear tree

 

UUall: //Ya hit another snafu. Youve got the elect being raptured before the tribulation.

Matthew 24:21-22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Here we find the trib being shortened for the elects sake.//

No problem. These elect are in heaven.
Anyway, if it wrere not for the ending of
the tribulation period for the sake of the
saints in heaven, there would be no one left
to populate and repopulate the Millilnnial
Messanic Kingdom.

See also this topic:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/3544/5.html
about the Millinnilal Messanic Kingdom.

 

UUall: //Seems youre gonna have to invent 2 "elects"//

I don't need to invent anything.
God does have two groups of Church elect saints:

1 Corinthians 10:32 (KJV1769):
Give none offence, neither to the JEWS,
nor to the GENTILES, nor to the CHURCH OF GOD.

There are Jewish Israeli elect saint church-members
and there are mostly gentile* Church Age redeemed, born-again,
scantificed-by-the-blood-of-Jesus, elect saint church-members

*- includes some Messanic Jews

On the scale of eternity, Where God dwells, these
two groups are one. It is only from our lilmitedl-time
point of view that there are the two groups.

 

Ok Ed
So your saying that the elect that is up in heaven are really looking forward to havin people here so they can reproduce. And God knows that this is gonna make you giddy, so he shortens the trib period just for you. Ok, you think your part of the elect. Why are you looking forward to that Ed?

 

EDWARD???