Predestinated = OSAS

So then you are one of the predestinated but tell others who believe that they might not be

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]I only tell believers that they need to contend for the faith, run the race, seek after God and love Him with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and allow God to chasten them.

The Bible is clear enough - if you do not do these things, you will be lost aka lose your salvation. When that happens is up to God. He knows the heart. He knows when someone falls into rebellion if they will come back.

You are missing the point, that some fall into rebellion, or have been drawn in by seducing spirits, or fall under the anti-messiah spirit and never come back. That is not God's fault. They will have no excuse at judgment. As Jesus said, even the elect were in danger of falling were it not for the grace of God in the end times.

 

It is about "bearing fruit". It is about a abiding relationship with Jesus Christ eles you will bear no fruit. Deeds will be burned in the fire yet he himself shall be saved(1Cor 3:12-15).

Here is a simple test for this passage...

Q) Is this passage speaking about salvation?

A with Q) Is "bearing fruit" a "deed" or "work"?

A) Yes it is a deed or a work.

Q) Is salvation a free gift of God, not of works?

A) Yes, therefore one must interpret the passage in light of the precept concerning God's free gift of salvation.

Simple!

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]so are you saying then, that fruit is what is grafted into the Vine?

 

Good point. Funny how Ezek 18 and Matt 18 both tell the story of "Forgiveness revoked"!!

Hard to miss brother!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Death means separation, it does not mean cease to exist.

 

There is no exegesis of Ezek 18 that can remotely imagine that the author's term for "die" does not really mean 'dead' or 'die' it just means separation.

one may be able to eisegete that idea into the text - but it can not be exegeted from Ezek 18.

Secondly - there is no text in all of scripture that says "The soul is always alive since it is immortal"

God claims HE alone can "DESTROY both body and soul in hell fire"

I believe him.

When we see the body "burned" (and in that way "destroed") we do not simply see it as "functioning but separated".

It is real!

----------------------------

However "on this thread" trying to imagine "immortal soul" into the Bible does not help your case. In Ezek 18 and MAtt 18 (Forgiveness revoked) you have to imagine that the righteous man whose soul then "dies" is in fact "not righteous at any point so that he never had anything to fall from" and the same is true in Matt 18. You must imagine that the forgiven servant "Was nevre really forgiven" no matter what the Bible says.

 

I hate to butt in on your "exegesis", but you are comparing the spiritual to the physical on the same playing field - that's like trying to play football on a basketball court

 

I said what I said. Which questions and answers do you disagree with?

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]you did not answer the question

 

Do you also tell other believers that you are one of the predestinated to the finish? That you are special and cannot lose your salvation but they better beware of losing their salvation?

This is what I am getting out of your answers and comments brother, that you believe you are predestinated to remain faithful but other believers cannot be so sure.

Why isn't the predestination passage for those believers you preach to as well as for yourself? What makes your salvation so special and different than theirs?


God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]I am not special. I am but a worm, a breath, a vapor. I am nothing but a pile of dirt. Bought with an extreme price. I owe Him a debt I cannot pay.

 

1) If someone asked me, I would have a discussion such as we are doing, using scripture to back up what I say.

2) I have often discussed with other belivers what it takes to contend for the faith, and what happens if one does not.

3) All true believers know the Lord. It is important to tell new believers what is expected of them. It's called discipleship. The NT has many examples of those who fell away and I would most certainly point that out.

4) I am not a preacher. I have discussions with fellow believers and some who are wavering. There are many. I pray for them and lead them the best way I can into the truth of God's Word.

5) I am not special. I almost fell away and was lost. I was part of a religious group who believed that unless you pronounce the Name of Jesus correctly you were not saved. Many of those people eventually denied the Deity of Christ because they wanted to follow the ancient path and it drew them away from Christ into deception. I was very close, my clothes were singed and smoking.

 

That is what I read.

God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]then if the branches are cut off because they do not produce fruit, that means? . . .

 

steavers wrote:
I reference these scriptures not to say you are going to be lost, you cannot be, Jesus already sealed your destiney. But I reference them so you can see that you are being hypocritical and pray that you will repent and allow all of God's children to be shown how God has predestianted them for remaining faithful to the end. It is for ALL born again believers and you should be thoughtful enough to give them the truth of the matter.

eloidalmanutha:

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

depart from the faith = desert, withdraw, shun, remove, become faithless, no longer have faith or believe in Christ [strong's G868 & G4102]]

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

forsaken = leave behind, abandon, disregard [strong's G2641]

the right way = straight, level, road = narrow gate [strong's G2117 & G3598]

gone astray = lead away from the truth [Jesus is the Truth], sever, be led off the path = narrow gate [strong's G4105]