SOULS DIE

the words 'spirit' and 'destroy' appear only 3 times in the KJV together. The first, counsel (advice) is destroyed; the second, Babylon; the third, the son of Perdition is destroyed.

spirit and perish are not in same verses in kjv

 

Which verses are you referring to?

 

Isaiah 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

In Matt 10 Christ goes from the idea of “Kill” to the even MORE complete idea of “Kill and destroy” in the sequence above. This progression is seen clearly as Luke relates the same teaching below.

Rev 20:9 “Fire DEVOURED the wicked”
Rev 11:18 “Destroy those who Destroy the earth”
2Thess 1:9 The wicked pay the “penalty of eternal Destruction”

Ps 21:8-10 “devoured” – “Destroyed”

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The wicked will “be no more”

 

Seeing as how word meanings have changed drastically through the centuries, those who heard the words knew what Jesus said. They also knew that eternal punishment meant eternal punishment; that tormented day and night meant tormented day and night.

Today however, the readers of the Gospel see a different picture. They do not want to accept judgment for sin as being eternal torment in the lake af fire as the Bible teaches, so, they just covince themselves that God is not that God of the first century AD and prior. They tell read the books of the false prophet who is already realizing the error of his way in hell. They tell themselves the sinner will not burn forever, but will just be annihilated. Contrary to God's Holy Word.

Yes, word definitions have changed... and have changed to the point that people no longer fear the judgment of God.

 

Gen 2:16-17 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

You have chosen to believe the lie of Satan himself. Through this lie you are, and will be deceived. God will allow strong delusion to come upon this world, it is those who have already chosen to believe a lie, and are to proud to give it up, that will be deceived by this strong delusion.

II Th 2:9-12 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Tim 4:1 1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The immortality of the soul is the doctrine of the Devil himself. He invented it because
He is the father of lies. He is the one who wanted to be God, to take his place. Therefore he claims immortality for himself, knowing that this thing belongs only to God. Never the less, he will utterly perish, just as God’s word has predicted. Those also who choose to believe his lies, will share his same fate.


Ezek 28:13-19 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Spiritualism is one of the common threads of almost all false religions. The belief in the immortality of the soul will be one of the ties that will bind all of these false religions together in rebellion against God just before He returns. Satan and his angels will be allowed by God to send strong delusion upon this world through this false teaching.

The supposed dead, (fallen angels) will communicate with those of these false religions and guide them in this rebellion. This is already going on in this world to a greater and greater extent as we near the end. Roman Catholics are in the most danger from this deception, since they already pray to the dead, they will count it a blessing when the dead begin talking to them. Those Christians who refuse to give up this lie will also follow in suite.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Gen 2:16-17 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

You have chosen to believe the lie of Satan himself. Through this lie you are, and will be deceived. God will allow strong delusion to come upon this world, it is those who have already chosen to believe a lie, and are to proud to give it up, that will be deceived by this strong delusion.

II Th 2:9-12 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Tim 4:1 1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The immortality of the soul is the doctrine of the Devil himself. He invented it because
He is the father of lies. He is the one who wanted to be God, to take his place. Therefore he claims immortality for himself, knowing that this thing belongs only to God. Never the less, he will utterly perish, just as God’s word has predicted. Those also who choose to believe his lies, will share his same fate.


Ezek 28:13-19 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Spiritualism is one of the common threads of almost all false religions. The belief in the immortality of the soul will be one of the ties that will bind all of these false religions together in rebellion against God just before He returns. Satan and his angels will be allowed by God to send strong delusion upon this world through this false teaching.

The supposed dead, (fallen angels) will communicate with those of these false religions and guide them in this rebellion. This is already going on in this world to a greater and greater extent as we near the end. Roman Catholics are in the most danger from this deception, since they already pray to the dead, they will count it a blessing when the dead begin talking to them. Those Christians who refuse to give up this lie will also follow in suite.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith </font>[/QUOTE]For starters, the Roman Catholic church doesn't teach spirit channeling. There is a big difference between praying for a deceased loved one in attempt to get that soul out of Purgatory and casting a magic spell in an attempt to bring him or her back to earth to reveal the future.

Furthermore, implying that those who believe in the immortaility of the soul will be destroyed along with the devil is patently false. Our salvation is not based on what we believe about the state of man after death but on what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross and His Resurrection.

 

All false doctrine serves the purpose of diluting the gospel message, and separating humanity from their only Savior. If you do not properly understand the state of the dead, then you cannot properly understand what was done for us by Christ, when He paid the penalty for our sins. Sin results in death. Thus, not correctly understanding death, means not correctly understanding the gospel.


Rom 6:22-23 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Are you saying JFox1, that if a supernatural being claiming to be Mary, appeared to you, and told you a message which she said you needed to share with others, that you would not do so? How about one of the other Saints, or even one of the Apostles? There are already many who claim to have messages from Saints, and Mary in particular. These things will only increase, not only in frequency, but in greater power of deception as the end draws near.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

You will never convince me that "soul sleep" and anniliationism of the wicked are valid Christian teachings. Jehovah's Witnesses and a follower of Herbert Armstrong have tried to convince me.

No supernatural being has ever appeared to me and claimed to be Mary or anyone else. I am unable to see spirits of any kind. That usually happens to Catholics. I'm Lutheran.

How about visions of the living? I read about an incident in which a woman was in the hospital, scheduled to have heart surgery the next day. While she was praying, she had a vision of TV preacher Oral Roberts, who said to her, "Expect a miracle. God is at the point of your need. Expect a miracle."

If I saw something like that, I'd be yelling, "Nurse! Nurse!"

 

if the soul that sins dies and has no functional abilities at all, then the soul of the child in 2 Kings 17 would not have been able to return into him.

Elijah did not pray for the soul to come back to life, only that it would return.

 

wopik,

those references you gave about "sleep" is referring to the death of the body, not soul sleep.

In Luke 16:19-31, the Rich Man and Lazarus are in the afterlife. One in Abraham's bosom and the other suffering in flames. Both are conscious after physical death but in different locations.

People love to use I Thessalonians in an attempt to prove "soul sleep," but actually it supports a conscious existence after death: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him." I Thessalonians 3:14 KJV. The Holy Spirit is telling us that God intends to bring with Him (Greek sun auto), that is, with Jesus at His Second Coming, believing Christians who have experienced physical death. The state of their bodies is descrbed as "sleep," which is a common metaphor for death in the New Testament. In the NT, in every instance in which "sleep" is used as a metaphor for death refers to the death of the body and is never used in the NT to describe the state of the soul.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to use eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written to unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." I John 5:11-13 KJV. In the grammar and context of this passage "eternal life" (Greek eionion zoes) is the PRESENT POSSESSION OF EVERY BELIEVER IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND IF THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE CONSCIOUS FELLOWSHIP THEN THE WHOLE NEW TESTAMENT MEANING IS DESTROYED. The Holy Spirit used the present indicative active of the Greek verb echo, expressing present, continuous action. THE BELIEVER, HAVING BEEN REGENERATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, ALREADY POSSESSES NEVER-ENDING LIFE AS A CONTINUING QUALITY OF CONSCIOUS EXISTENCE.

 

If the soul is dead, it can not have feeling, yet Jesus speaks of souls and bodies in hell.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The soul is not the person

 

Matthew 10:28 clearly shows the soul and body are two separate entities, wopik.

 

But Paul DID treat the soul and the body as separate entities: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23 KJV. He stated that the soul and spirit can be preserved, implying eternal life for the spirit/soul.

Jesus Himself treated the soul and body as separate entities: And fear not them which kill the body, but are NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28 KJV.

Souls do live on after death: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar THE SOULS OF THEM THAT WERE SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, does thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" Revelation 6:10 KJV. These are souls of martyrs who were killed and they were talking to God. So much for soul sleep.