Roman Catholicism , cult or not? Part II

Pastor Bob,

Cat got yer tongue?

 

Amen!! I agree.

 

SFIC,

With Pastor Bob being a moderator, I'm assuming he locked the 1st thread due to 26 pages worth of posts and copied the last one over to get this thread going.

Mike

 

Again cults usually always deny the diety of Christ. The RCC is Orthodox on every doctrine except those it added later. Such as purgatory.

 

It may not deny the deity of Jesus Christ. However:
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
To be saved one must be baptized into the Catholic Church.
All doctrine originates from one source (not the Bible), but the magesterium.
All doctrine must have only one interpretation (that of the magesterium).
The Bible is not the final authority, rather there is another authority to appeal to--Oral Tradition.
The gospel is another gospel--a gospel of works which Paul calls anathema.
It is not a gospel of grace through faith.
Grace is redefined.
Grace supposedly works through "sacraments" which the Bible knows nothing of.
The belief that Christ paid the full penalty for our sins is denied, in that one has to pay part of that penalty in purgatory.
The sacrifice of Christ was not sufficient, therefore he must be resacrificed again and again.
How many times must Christ be re-sacrificed until his sacrifice is sufficient enough to pay for our sins??

All the above puts the RCC in the realm of a cult. You cannot believe in the above doctrines and be a Christian at the same time. It is an impossibility.
DHK

 

DHK,

You make excellent points...

Yet, how many times have I visited a mainline church and heard a rather forceful sermon that their church or denom was the only right way...

That if you weren't a card carrying member of their church you weren't going to make it to heaven...

I've even had Baptists and Pentecostals who have said if you aren't baptised in one or the other you weren't saved...

Many times I've quickly transited a church where they claimed the Bible was the final authority.

But, where the preachers interpretation was the only acceptable one.

Even if it conflicted with the published denominational stance...

I have had both a Jesuit and a Fransiscan Priest as personal friends...

I never heard either one say that Christ was still on the Cross...

And, I am not at all sure if Purgatory and Indulgences is still actively taught...

I know it wasn't even on the list of stuff we talked about...

And, when the Bishop decided that Island Wide Charismatic Meetings were threatening his reign...

The Catholics that left to join with both Baptist and Pentecostal churches didn't require hardly any retraining at all.

It was as if the 'Rites' were only 'Rites' not truths...

That's what I mean by the Traditions Occulting the Gospel...

If we fault the Catholics for their religiousity concerning the Sacraments...

Do we not also point the finger at ourselves for the way we act when someone doesn't take communion or misses a service?

I mean according to some sermons I've heard if you miss the Saturday Work Day you're going to hell...

And, heaven help you if you have an unexpected medical emergency between the time you're paid and the time you put your tithe in the plate!

And, we protestants have our own pet doctrines, too.

Now, granted I have little experience with American Catholics. They are a very liberal bunch and usually when liberalism comes in, truth goes out...

Meaning to say; in some parrishes the literal application of Catholic Doctrine (as you have outlined it) is kept because it can be used as a rigid rule of law. (To control the people)

This is neccesary because liberalism can't create a voluntary moral climate...

Yet, my personal experience is that not all parrishes are run that way and the people really do know their Bibles and question the 'Rites'...

So, at least for the moment...

I stand by my first post...

Mike Sr.

 

Contrary to the Satanically inspired 'ecumenism' that has enveloped the Protestant/evangelical Church today, i agree with the Reformers and other Christians who stood on the side of Truth and gave up their lives willingly in defense of Christ's true Gospel -

The pope is antichrist and the RC 'Church' is the "Whore of Babylon" as prophecied in Revelation 17.

RC'ism is more than just a cult, it is a major tool of Satan - paganism masquerading in 'christian' clothing.

Let's not mince words folks, 'political-correctness' is contrary to 'Bible-correctness.' Let's speak the truth in love - the souls of over 1 BILLION Catholics need that Truth. May the love of Christ compel us!


Ray

 

I visit another forum who has Calvinists on a Cult & Heretic List...

And, they make some rather strong arguments for their position, too...

All from God's Holy Word the KJV Bible...

May I ask what is the minimum requirement to be saved? To be Born-Again is?

Mike Sr.

 

I don't believe Calvinism is Biblical either.

"Minimum requirement to be saved? To be born-again?"

The word says -

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Of course, 'believing' entails more than just mental assent. After all, the devil believes (and trembles) at the knowledge of Christ and His power, yet, obviously, he is not saved. The mark of a truly regenerated person is -

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

A constantly changING life, exhibiting more in one's life the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22,23) and good works, which the word says, "...God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10)


Ray

 

SpiritualMadMan,

What in the world kind of church was that? Was this a false cult like the Jehovahs Witnesses?

The reason I ask is that I personally have fellowshipped in all kinds of fellowships during my years as a christian, and I have never once heard anyone claim that they...and they only...are the "right way" to be saved.

Never.

(I've been born again for 24 years)

Every one of them proclaimed that Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved.

I have never in my life heard any Baptist, Pentecostal, "non-denominational", Church of God, Church of Christ, Assemblies of God, Charismatic, house fellowship, Cambellite Christian, or any other I have been personally aquainted with ever say anything like that.

I have never heard that spoken or insinuated in 24 years as a christian, and with personal experience with all the groups I have listed in this post.

I'm not accusing you of lying, but either you have greatly misunderstood what someone might have said or you are reading something into things that were said said that arent there.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

Dear Mike,
All one is required to do is go to an Independent Fundamental Baptist church to find out they don't believe many other Christian Denomination members are going to be in heaven.

In Christ,
Nate
"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"

 

I am a pastor of an IFB church. I take your statement as slander.
We believe most other "denominatons" are in error (that is why they are different denominations). But that doesn't mean all of them are non-evangelical. In general evangelical churches still preach the gospel, by the which one is saved. The RCC is not an evangelical church.
DHK

 

I apologize I slandard and painted with a broad stroke without even thinking. (I was raised IFB.) Let me ask you this DHK do you believe there will be Methodist, Assembly of God, and Anglicans in heaven?
In Christ,
Nate

"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"

 

I apologize I slandard and painted with a broad stroke without even thinking. (I was raised IFB.) Let me ask you this DHK do you believe there will be Methodist, Assembly of God, and Anglicans in heaven?
In Christ,
Nate

"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!" </font>[/QUOTE]I know of many Methodists and Assembly of God people who have trusted Christ as their Saviour. I can't speak for the Anglicans. There may be some who are evangelical, but in general the Anglican church is apostate. Because a church speaks out against the doctrinal errors of another denomination does not mean that they believe all in that church are unsaved.
For example of the three that you mentioned, the one that is most evangelical, is the Assembly of God. At the same time, it is important to speak out against one of the most prevalent errors of our time, that is speaking in tongues, an error of the Assembly of God, but not neccessarily of the others that you mentioned. Per centage wise I would guess that there would be more saved individuals in the AOG than in the Anglican, in spite of the doctrine tongues only because it is an evangelical church and the Anglican isn't.
DHK

 

Thank you for the answer. I would disagree that as a whole we (Anglican) are an apostate Church. There are those within our ranks who are apostate but we as a Church still hold to Orthodox theology.
In Christ,
Nate

"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"

 

Nate,

Thats fine but do you hold to the saving gospel of Jesus Christ?

Proclaiming to all that they must be born again, and that they can be justified in Gods eyes through faith alone in Jesus Christ?

I'm not saying that accusatorily. I'm asking. I've not had much interaction with the Anglicans.

God bless,

Mike

 

D28,

You previously answered as to what is the 'minimum' saving Gospel...

And, as such is truth, how much error does it take to bury truth?

As I have said...

A church may have slendid Doctrine concerning Christ and Salvation...

Yet, occult it to the point where it is difficult to find...

I am not sure that any church that Proclaims that Jesus is the Son of God, Man's Only Hope of Salvation can be properly called a 'Cult' in the sense most of us react to that word...

We may need a better word for churches with a higher than tolerable level of error?

But, then I've been accousted by some KJV-O people whose only goal appeared to be to get me converted to the KJV...

And, to these particular ones, it was more important than life itself...

How do we rate them? They sure seem to have an idol. Though a noble one. A idol nonetheless...

I, too, have run into Independent Baptists who have been "the only way".

Though I've run into a few more Pentecostal Sects being a Pentecostal.

And, there was a day when both Mainline Baptists and Mainline Pentecostals both 'caught' such a teaching...


I guess a good question is this. Could *I* be a Catholic? No...

This was settled a long time ago when Bob Phelps a Jesuit Lawyer and I sat down and talked and he told me in no uncertain terms that as Spiritual and Earnest as I was I would not survive as a Catholic...

(Too, free spirited?)

At the time I was on the outs with my church...

Had gotten my heart broken...

Was spending far too much time at the Rectory counselling parrishioners.

(They all thought I was already a Jesuit in Plain Clothes!)

I mean, Bob could have taken advantage of all that...

But, he didn't... That I can't forget...

Yes, there were doctrinal issues...

But, I'd already seen how Canice was handling them and was pretty sure I could, too...

So, maybe my hesitation is based a bit on close friendships...

I knew these guys like true friends and brothers...

That makes it real hard to call these particular Catholics Cult Members...

Mike Sr.

 

If by 'saving gospel of Jesus Christ' you mean placing one's faith in Christ and not relying on anything I can do but rather on what Christ did at the Cross then yes. Salvation through grace. The Church has always taught this. I place my faith in Christ completely.
In Christ,
Nate

"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"

 

Nate,

Thanks!

Mike