Featured Can we lose our salvation and eternal life?

Do you teach loss of salvation?

If so, then you teach that a person's own efforts are what save them...not God's perfect efforts ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).
The Lord never fails to save those that are His ( Philippians 1:6 ).

Your God is a god who cannot save unless a person "lets Him", and then tries like mad to keep it by their walk.
If they falter, if they don't keep to the straight and narrow, then they fall off it and perish, don't they?

Loss of salvation is not Scriptural, because it relies on man's efforts.
Step back and take a look at your doctrines.

What, ultimately, does a person's salvation rely on...God's efforts, man's efforts, or both?
If you say anything other than God's efforts, you are relying on your own.

I don't care how many different ways you try to approach it.
Loss of salvation does not rely on God's power alone to save a person...if it did, then God would not be all-powerful, would He?

 

Loss of salvation is promoted by well over 50% of the institutions and organizations that name the name of Christ.
This includes the Roman Catholic Church, Pentecostals, Charismatics, Assemblies of God, Nazarenes, Churches of Christ, Methodists, "Wesleyans", Bible Missionaries, Seventh Day Adventists and many more.

You're teaching exactly what over 90% of professing Christians believe, if you consider that there are over 1.2 billion baptized Catholics and millions of others who believe it, all over the world.

It's the Hillsong gospel.
The Paula White / Benny Hinn gospel.
The Max Lucado gospel.
The Doug Batchelor gospel.
The John Wesley gospel.
The Dan Corner gospel.

In other words, the "popular gospel".
Does this not worry you, that you are in such large company, despite His word stating this?:

" Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. " ( Matthew 7:13-14 ).


I'm worried for you, but there's nothing I can do further to help you see your error.

 

How about everlasting torment?

Mark 9:43-48.
Matthew 25:46.
2 Thessalonians 1:9.
Revelation 14:9-11.

Do you believe that all who end up in the Lake of Fire are punished with everlasting torment and destruction?

 

I agree, most wholeheartedly.

@3rdAngel :
Yes, or no?

 

@3rdAngel
I think you call yourself "3rdAngel" because of this:

3ABN - Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Am I wrong?

 

"...and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" ( Revelation 14:10 )

If I share His word with you, do you believe it?

I agree.
Are you ignoring the above?

With respect, do you think it needs "interpretation", or does it mean what it says?
Here's more of the passage:

" And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." ( Revelation 14:9-11 )

 

No, you don’t understand, I’ve dealt with those scriptures long ago, what I don’t do is waste my time to chase your proof-texting rabbit trails in circular arguments that attempt to weasel, I dealt with your conclusions in general in that they could not possibly mean that one no longer sins after salvation and should they sin they would lose their salvation, no longer be a son of God, as you falsely claim. I did that by showing that you have clearly missed the point in those scriptures as did the Jews likewise because like them there is a “stumbling block” directly in your path. I also further referred to Progressive Revelation in which if you did understand this process it would help you understand the reason why what you think are your wonderful-saving-worthy-works are filthy rags to the Lord. Finally, I demonstrated that even the saints did not meet your interpretations of qualifications within those scriptures. Yet you continue to abuse them while it is clear that your agenda here fails to recognize that the Good News is that grace is free because Jesus Christ paid the price when it was and is impossible for us to meet God’s standards, therefore as “revealed in the New Covenant” it is by faith alone that we receive His grace.

We do not become little gods who are capable of not sinning when we are saved! That is your fantasy. Be honest, that is where you are headed “3rd Angel”. Which is why I said, “YOU are not Jesus!”, “YOU are a sinner who CONTINUES in sin, unless you would like to call God a liar?” and briefly went into Progressive Revelation and gave you Heb 10:4 and 1Cor 2-7-15 to demonstrate how you have “missed a major point of the Bible”.

First, I am not disagreeing with God’s Words but rather your conclusions as to their meanings while I recognize that while you are trying to be a teacher of the meat of the Word you have great need to get back to the milk.

It is rather funny that you would use these particular scriptures because in “truth” they refute your teaching right in line with what I have been saying about you being on a path of stumbling blocks along with the Pharisees who didn’t what to let go of the law and their own earning of salvation. Let’s take your proof-text and examine it:

(Joh 10:1) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

(The door spoken of here Is Christ. He is the only lawful entrance. Jesus called those “teachers” thieves and robbers – DO YOU NOT SEE YOUR RESEMBLANCE WITH THEM HERE?!)

(Joh 10:2) But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

(Jesus is saying the door belongs to Him alone, you need to be clear buddy, He doesn’t need your help (works) to open it!)

(Joh 10:3) To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

(Jesus, and only Jesus is worthy of the door in which the true Pastor and His sheep enter. The sheep obey and follow Him BUT IN NO WAY are the sheep worthy to do so, it is by His righteousness ALONE that they enter.)

(Joh 10:4) And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

(The sheep follow Him in faith, that (their faith in Him) is what they believe in, they know His voice and the power of God – they have absolutely no, 0%, faith that they should try to make it through that door by any other means, especially their own merits.)

You present verses that say the faithful believe His Words and follow Him and there is no problem with that but then you try to tack on required “obedience” that goes beyond faith and goes back to relying on their works in which attempt draw lines that can not be crossed and look for signs of merit – just like the Pharisees. Again, this is why I said you abuse these scriptures because you do not take into account the bigger picture in these teachings and have taken on the role of the Pharisees.

Let’s get something clear, I do not disagree with any of God’s Words, what I disagree with is your interpretations! A proper understanding of Eph 2:8-9 would guide into the knowledge that His grace is free gift through faith and therein to become a FRUIT INSPECTOR becomes a means of boasting.

Again, you attempt top change “obedience” into meriting thereby missing the point that by the law of obedience all fall short. If your focus is on the quality of “your obedience” the object of your faith is seriously messed up because it is by Christ’s obedience that we are saved! That there is the Good News revealed in the New Covenant.

Hence, the message remains that faith that is without works is dead AND nothing has changed here as your works are dead except for in love and faith of what Christ has done for you is when your works bear fruit. Ah yes, the devils believe there is a God but they place hope in their own works for they do not love the truth that Jesus alone paid the price and has the ONLY lawful entrance to the door of salvation. Those devils that also believe there is a God are thieves and robbers – see the pattern forming and holding here about the Good News that Jesus Christ has done all the work that we can not and never could achieve salvation through as revealed in the NC?

No, that is not all that written here by you, your agenda of teaching a works-based salvation is clear and it is heretical. There was a time when such teachings here would be answered with you being banned, as was with the Millennial Exclusionist who round-about taught of one earning his salvation, but apparently that has changed.

Again, I DO NOT disagree with the scriptures and your begging the question that God’s Words line up with your interpretations DOES NOT support your fallacious argument that my argument is with God!



Throughout your posts you are attempting to place conditions on faith by measuring it against one’s works. That is how you use the terms “follow” and “obedience” and you place “assurance” of salvation on the quality of the works. Yet, you have missed the point that the “quality” of YOUR and MY works will always fall short of opening that door, therein it is you who errors in the object of his faith, not us!


Got to go. Hope that Helps.


P.S.

You misrepresent my words which asks if Paul was saved while he was a sinner. Not sure how you get that I implied he was save by his sin?

After this you continue to abuse the scriptures while mixing in the revelations taught to the Jews that one is NOT saved by the works of the law while casting your interpretations of those scriptures against the teachings of Jesus that He paid the price in full and that their/our obedience DID NOT SAVE THEM but is the necessary OBJECT OF THEIR FAITH which is what saves us and this faith MUST BE in His work alone. Once again, this is the Good News and it is Good News because WE ALL FALL SHORT and will continue to sin as long as we are in these bodies. (BTW, I see you have avoided addressing how you rate sin-wise?) We die daily, YOU die daily, but thanks be to God that we have a Savior full of mercy and grace.

I had to hurry but sincerely hope this helps clear up your confusion…

...I also noticed you didn't address the sin of those saints. I'd love to see you apply your teaching to them regarding them meeting your qualifications of holding their salvation?

 

2 Corinthians 4:14-16 KJVS
[14] Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. [15] For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. [16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The outward man perishes because of sin. But the born again is renewed in Christ daily because he ever liveth to make intercession for the saints. When we mess up, he chastens us here so we are not judged with the world.

 

Does unrepentant sinning mean that we cannot have ongoing sin issues?

 

Again, you are not God and question begging your interpretations to be on that level is beyond fallacious. As per the rest of your post it merely dodges my arguments and is full of weaselers having no substance so not worth a going forward with, but thanks for the discussion.