Saints Praying for Us?

I believe this to be an occulting and distracting doctrine...

As long as it's been brought up, though...

Here are two verses which are both the proof text for and against it...

Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

I do not believe the cloud of witnesses is the local church or even the World around us because of the "Therefore" referring to the dissertation preceeding...

Namey the hall of faith... All those Heroes are dead and gone... Are, saints...

Heb 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So we have a cloud of witnesses?

That doesn't mean they are our focus...
Jesus *is* to be our focus...

Hey, I like to go to the "Head Guy"...

If they want to add several layers of "Red Tape" to their prayer... More power to 'em...

Mike Sr.

 

As long as they are still alive, I don't mind them praying for me, Saint DeclareHim.

Cheers,

Jim

 

The one thing the EOC and RCC overlooks in the passages in Revelation is that the saints are praying on behalf of the church at large, asking God to bring about His promised judgement. I have never understood why people are so afraid to go to the source.

Along the lines of Jim's statement there is nothing wrong with asking living people to pray for you, but there is no indication the glorified saints can even hear us.

 

Even if the glorified Saints can pray for you why would one go through them rather than directly to God.
In Christ,
Nate

"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"

 

Then why should we ask any Christian brother or sister to pray for us when we can ask Jesus directly? If the mere fact that we can go straight to Jesus proves that we should ask no Christian in heaven to pray for us then it would also prove that we should ask no Christian on earth to pray for us.

 

The difference is that we are exhorted in scripture to pray one for another.

The greater question is how much does our prayer influence the mind of God? Is our prayer simply a step of obedience which brings us closer to the Lord in mind and direction, hence results oriented prayer.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I can see where you are coming from. I must ask does the Methodist Church as a whole teach that we should ask for the Saints in Heaven to pray for us?
In Christ,
Nate

"Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"

 

I still can't find any evidence in Scripture that supports requesting saints in heaven pray for us.

 

Well we do know that God answers the prayers of the righteous as James states in Jas. 5:16-18. So that being said, Christians in heaven are even more righteous than those on earth, since they have been made perfect to stand in the very presence of God. So wouldn’t their prayers be even more efficacious?

I’m not advocating not praying to Jesus, we should pray directly to Christ with every pressing need we have. But what would it hurt in asking a loved one that’s passed on to pray for us?

 

The Methodist, like the Catholic Church dose not teach that we are to ask the saints to pray for us and bypass Christ altogether, but then again we Methodist aren’t told we should never ask a Christian in heaven to pray for us either.

I’ve been to a few Catholic services and from my view point, the prayers said in their Mass, the central act of Catholic worship are directed to God and Christ, not the saints.

 

Then again there's no evidence in scripture that says we should not ask for prayers either from those saints in glory. But there’s evidence that suggests that the saints in heaven are aware of earthly affairs and there’s evidence that the saints in heaven are interceding for those on earth as depicted in the book of Revelation and we do know from scripture that prayers are effective.

 

Well put, riverm.

 

Have any of you moved mountains?

Cheers,

Jim

 

I don't know if the saints in Heaven pray for us or not. But if they do, I don't mind. We need all of the help we can get.

 

[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]#1. There is no mention here of "Saints praying for us"

#2. There is no statement here that WE who are alive are not "the saints" who are praying.

#3. Therer is no mention here of saints "praying to the dead"

To the contrary - in the Bible we are told that the saints are those ON earth that Paul and John are writing TO - who are READING the Bible in the various local churches.

The superstitious ideas about "The saints being dead people" comes from the dark ages. Surely the term may "include" those who are called by Paul "The DEAD in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and we should not "MOURN" or "WEEP" over their loss as though they will never be restored. (Read the chapter for details) - but that is a far cry from the dark ages view of "praying to the dead" and calling that dark-ages idea communion with saints.

In Christ,

Bob

 

In Eph 6 we see Paul asking that the saints pray for him. I too want that same thing.

#1. He tells us the SAINTS are those living and reading the text he is writing. (as I just pointed out above -- Eph 1)

#2. He asks that they all pray for him in chapter 6.

#3. He shows in numerous places where HE is praying for THEM as well.

This is done in both OT and NT.

Pray for the brethren.

In Christ,

Bob

 

</font>[/QUOTE]#1. There is no mention here of "Saints praying for us"

#2. There is no statement here that WE who are alive are not "the saints" who are praying.

#3. Therer is no mention here of saints "praying to the dead"

To the contrary - in the Bible we are told that the saints are those ON earth that Paul and John are writing TO - who are READING the Bible in the various local churches.

The superstitious ideas about "The saints being dead people" comes from the dark ages. Surely the term may "include" those who are called by Paul "The DEAD in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and we should not "MOURN" or "WEEP" over their loss as though they will never be restored. (Read the chapter for details) - but that is a far cry from the dark ages view of "praying to the dead" and calling that dark-ages idea communion with saints.

In Christ,

Bob [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Surely asking saints to pray for us didn't start in the dark ages.