Are you among the few or many?

1 Corinthians 12:3---------- and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I offer a challenge to you. Go and find someone that is absolutely an athiest. You know that they are, they tell you they are.

Ask them to say,"Jesus is Lord". And "Jesus is come in the flesh".

Just say the words, they of course don't mean them.

1 John-4:1-Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

I can assure you that they will be able to say those words.

The scripture does not mean just "say" the words.

There is a deeper meaning.

Peace,

Tam

 

Adam kept his body but his bride came from his rib (the church those who are of Christ).

As for the ones who said Lord, Lord.... they are the ones who were not saved, but probley just thought being good would get them into heaven "or" thought being baptized as a baby would ensure their salvation "or" since their mom and dad were pew sitters so they thought they had a position in the kingdom, "or" because they became a member of the church but didn't ask Jesus into thier hearts and will be the ones that go to the pit.

 

Romans 12:5 says that we are all members of one body. I don't see where you are getting 2 grooms.

OK, so let me get this straight: By your reasoning, in Matthew 7:22, it is referencing those who really didn't mean it (even though the Scriptures don't say such a thing; you have to add to the Scriptures to get that), but in 1 Corinthians 12:3, it only means those who really mean it. Do I have that right? That's what you really think? The Holy Spirit wasn't smart enough to say what he really meant?

 

There have been a lot of replies since I have been out today and I will address them eventually, but let me address music4Him's last post.

You equal his rib with the entire church, but that is incorrect. The Bible does not say that the church is the rib of Christ. It says that the church is the body of Christ. Huge difference. The rib is a part of the body just as the bride will be a part of the body.

Let me ask you this. If the entire church is going to be the bride of Christ please provide some Scripture evidence to that. So far there has been none been given. Tam gave several verses, but not one single one of them even alluded to the entire body being the bride. All the verses either said body or bride, the two were never mentioned together. Now if you can find Scripture evidence in the NT that the entire body will make up the bride then find that evidence in the OT, because it can't be in the NT if it isn't in the OT.

As to the Lord, Lord passage there is no rebuke given these two men that call Jesus Lord. The only rebuke that comes is He says they are workers of iniquity. That is why He says He doesn't know them because they were workers of iniquity not because they made a false confession of Him.

Granted there are some folks that have merely mumbled some words at some point in time and they are not saved, but just because that is so, we can't read that belief into a passage of Scripture that is talking about works, not about belief.

 

As a reminder: "Iniquity" is lawlessness; doing what is right in one's own eyes. Do you see that in the Church today? Think about all the women being ordained as pastors, homosexuals, and every other conceivable lawless act that you can imagine. Iniquity is not limited to the world outside the Church.

 

2 grooms.

O.K. When God took the rib out of Adam and made Eve, then there was 2 of them.

Now, we have the Body of Christ which is made up of all the believers.

You said the bride comes out of the body. So now there would be 2 groups.

The ones that make up the bride, and the others who are still the body, or the groom.

That makes 2.

Then there is Jesus, the second person of the Godhead. He is the groom.

So there you are! There would be 3!!

How do you explain that?

Tam

 

Tam you are taking the type/antitype too far. There are only two involved in the type and antitype. There is a groom and there is a bride.

Adam/Bride . . . Christ/Bride. Adam's bride was part of his body. Christ's bride will be part of His body. That's the end of the type/antitype.

I do understand where you are coming from, but all I can say is you are taking the type and antitype too far.

The part of Christ's body that doesn't make up the bride is still in Christ, but they won't be married to Christ nor to the bride of Christ.

They (non-bride part) will suffer loss at the bema seat. They will be found as Lot was found. They will be on the mountain, but near the bottom of the mountain in a place of shame.

I pray the Holy Spirit of Truth will clarify this in your mind and in your spirit.

One other place to see this picture that might help make it a little more clear is in Issac and Rebecca.

Abraham (who pictures God the Father) sends out his servant (who pictures the Holy Spirit) back to his family (Abraham's family) to find a bride for his son Isaac (who pictures Christ).

The servant goes to Abraham's family and returns with a wife, which was part of the family, but not the entire family.

The Holy Spirit is in the world today looking for a bride for Christ. He is looking among the family of God (which all believers are a part of), but He will with a bride that is part of the family (part of Christians) not all the family (not all Christians).

 

I understand exactly what you are saying, Jjump, I just don't happen to agree with you.

The Holy Spirit does reveal things to me, that's why I don't agree with you.

But putting that aside for a moment, what does this mean?

They (non-bride part) will suffer loss at the bema seat.

The bold word. What is that?

And as for me and my house, when I get to heaven I will be the Bride part, because in the body of Christ that's all there is, a Bride!!

Tam

 

The bema seat is the judgement seat of Christ. Christians will be judged according to their works. They will either be rewarded, because their works withstand the fire (and it's not their works, but it was the Spirit working through them and God giving them credit as if they had done it), or if they are works in the flesh they will burn as if wood, hay or stuble.

There are those Christians that will suffer loss. Most people say that they will just lose the rewards that would have been possible, which is only partially true. They will also lose something in which they already possess.

The Bible says we can lose our life now and find it in the coming kingdom, or we can live for self now and lose our life in that coming kingdom.

So there will be some that find life in the coming kingdom. And there will be some that lose life in the coming kingdom.

As to the first part of your post I would say that you aren't disagreeing with me, but you are disagreeing with the Bible.

As I have said previously please show me in Scripture where the bride and the entire church are equal or where that is even alluded to (it doesn't have to be an exact word for word line). And if you find it in the NT, then you must also find it in the OT. If you can't do either one then what you are now disagreeing with must be correct, because we have shown you a great many Scripture in both Testaments.

 

No I am not disagreeing with the bible. I am disagreeing with you.

What people like you don't understand, is that just because you "see" it in the bible, it doesn't mean it is there.

What you have done is arrange scripture so that everyone that "says" they know Jesus can get to spend eternity with Jesus whether they are without spot or wrinkle or just live like the devil, even though they said the sinners prayer somewhere along the way.

There have been enough scriptures given to show that the body goes on to be the bride, so I will not post anymore.

There is no point in wasting my time . Besides, we don't really need to know about this now. God is in control, and when we get that far along, we will see the plan, and then you can say, oop's I was wrong.

Our time needs to be spent on following Jesus day by day here on earth.

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

As a Baptist preacher said there are 2 types of people on this plant.....Saved and Unsaved.
J.Jump said....
----------------------------------------------------------
The bema seat is the judgement seat of Christ. Christians will be judged according to their works. They will either be rewarded, because their works withstand the fire (and it's not their works, but it was the Spirit working through them and God giving them credit as if they had done it), or if they are works in the flesh they will burn as if wood, hay or stuble.
---------------------------------------------------------

Now theres stipulations along with salvation? We are going to be rewarded for works????? But the ones who didn't so anything then they are doomed to hell because they didn't do enough? Is that what you are implying?

I still comprehend the Bride as being those who are saved and know Jesus.

 

Amen Music!

Their whole thing doesn't make sense!

Peace,

Tam

 

Well Tam it truly troubles my heart that you see, but you don't see. You said in a previous post that you see what we are talking about, so it is in the Bible, but you don't agree with it.

Then you come back and say that it's not in the Bible. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid. Either it is or it isn't.

It is clearly there. Now whether or not you want to agree with it or not is a totally different subject - and it sounds as though you don't want to agree, which is between you and God.

Let me address the Scriptures that you pointed out and we will go from there (by the way you didn't give any from the OT, which is problem No. 1 - if it's in the new it can be found in the old).

Here are the Scriptures that you gave as proof:

1 Corinthians 12:27 – You are the body of Christ – speaking of the church and those who have been given spiritual gifts.

This speaks exactly to what you wrote. Christians are the body of Christ. That has never been disputed. However there is absolutely nothing in that verse that talks about the body becoming the bride. It just says that "you are Christ's body." The word bride is not even in the verse. Neither is the word bride used in the context of the passage.

Ephesians 4:12 – The edifying of the body of Christ is the reason we are equipped to minister, earlier in the beginning of this chapter is the discussion on who is in the body –one faith one baptism.

The talks about the gifts that are given to edify and equip the church just as you have pointed out. Once again the word bride is no where in that passage of Scripture, much less verse 12. And there is no mention or even allusion about the church becoming the bride.

Rev. 21:2 – The new Jerusalem is beautifully adorned as a bride because it will be the home of His bride.

This passage of Scripture does not say anything about the bride of Christ. It says the new Jerusalem is adorned as a bride for her husband, but that is speaking about the city not the church, so there is no mention of the church in this passage and there is no mention of the bride in this passage much less verse 2.

Rev. 21:9 – The bride is said to be the Lamb’s wife.

Now you have a verse that talks about the wife of the Lamb, but now you can find no mention of church in that verse or that entire passage of Scripture.

Rev. 22:17 – The Spirit and the bride say to the bridegroom, “come.”

Well we have bride in this verse, but no mention of the church. However, there is a mention of the church in the smaller context of the passage that this verse was pulled from, unfortunately it does not have anything to say about the church becoming the bride or even an allusion.

Ephesians 5:25-28 – The discussion of husbands and wives. Jesus sets the example by how he loved the church and gave himself for it. Church must equal wife.

Here is verse 23: For the R320 husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head R321 of the church, He Himself being R322 the Savior of the body.
the comparison is husband/wife and Christ/church. Not husband/wife and Christ/wife. This passage is talking about the relation of a human husband and human wife comparing it to Christ's relationship to His church not His bride.

I think verse 27 is probably what is throwing you...it says "that He might present R329 to Himself the church in F96 all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy R330 and blameless."

"might present" is subjunctive which means it may or may not happen and would be holy and blameless is also subjunctive, which means it may or may not happen.

So there is no indication that this is going to be a certainty. So what has to happen is we have to go to other Scripture to see if it happens. And we find out in other Scripture that it does not happen. The entire church is not going to be found in this condition.

Revelation 19:7-9 – The marriage of the Lamb, the wife is dress in fine linen, clean and white which is the righteousness of the saints.

Again this is a great passage of Scripture that points that not all the church will become the bride, because the bride is responsible for clothing herself. Well her clothing comes from the righteous acts of the saints. Unfortunately there are going to be some saved individuals that don't have righteous acts and will therefore be found like the person tossed out of the wedding feast in the parable, because they were not adorned with a wedding garment.

As to your other point I have not arranged Scripture in any fashion. That was done by the Holy Spirit. He did not ask me for my opinion in the least. I just read it as He gave it.

As far as eternal salvation goes all that is required is believing on Christ that He died for our sins and rose from the dead according to the Scriptures. That's it...anything else is adding to what God said and is a lie.

So I will await some new Scripture that shows that the church makes up the entire bride both from the OT and the NT.

 

Music4Him lost and saved folks both will be judged according to their works. It is the only thing left to be judged. If a person is an unbeliever they are condemned already according to the Scripture, so there is nothing left to judge in that area.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 - 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

Short version:

1. trib (Matt 24:21-28 pre-rapture in Matt 24)
2. Rapture and Resurrection (1Thess 4, Rev 20:4)
3. Saints Get new bodies (1Cor 15 at 2nd coming)
4. Millennium. Literal 1000 years between 2 resurrections.

5. Desolate Earth "I looked and behold no man"

6. Satan released from pit where he has been
for the entire 1000.
7. Saints return with Christ and the Holy City
8. Gog and Magog war (all nations amass an army
to fight against God - surround the Holy City
9. God wipes them out. (Great and mighty day
of the Lord).
10. New Heavens and New Earth created
11. New Jerusalem remains here.

 

and i always figured that the original question went something like "are you among the few or many?"

lol. eight pages of what. now this's gotten to the timeline of the last days? haha. some people's kids...hehe

 

and so are the days on baptist board

 

[Genesis 24:1-4] Genesis 21-25 forms an overall type that is made up of many individual types. In the antitype, these chapters present a chronological sequence of events that start with the birth of the Christ to the Messianic Kingdom. The things that are covered in these passages cover about 2,000 years within the history of man on this Earth. The antitypes of these types begin toward the end of the Jewish dispensation and lead all the way into the Messianic era, and together, they cover all of the Christian dispensation.

[Matthew 1:18-25; Revelation 20:1-6; 22:7-21] This is the same way the NT is laid out: It begins with events surrounding the birth of Christ (near the end of the Jewish dispensation) and ends with events surrounding the coming Kingdom.

So, these passages in Genesis form a typical skeletal framework, and we find the antitype in the NT, taken as a whole. In other words, the NT, which deals with the exact same subject manner in an expanded for, is a sort of a commentary on the material that is set forth in these 5 chapters in Genesis. The NT is the “sinews and flesh and skin” that covers this skeletal framework. [Ezekiel 37:1-10]

This same sort of typical relation that we see between two different sections of Scripture is common to the book of Genesis. The book opens with the story of creation, ruin, restoration, and rest, and Scripture in its entirety is brought into view. Genesis 1:1-2:3 is the skeletal framework at the beginning, and the rest of Scripture is commentary that forms the sinews, flesh, and skin that attaches itself to and covers the framework. This is the same way a skyscraper is built; they begin with a skeletal framework, then they add the elevator shafts and other things that attach to the frame on the inside, and then they add the outer skin.

Since Scripture is structured in this way, the commentary assumes that those who are studying and preaching and teaching will have a deep understanding of the material with which the commentary deals. The sinews, flesh, and skin are useless without the bones upon which they are to be attached. Without the framework, there is nothing to hold them in place. Without the framework and foundation for a skyscraper…

[Isaiah 28:10] 1 Corinthians 10:11, which we looked at last week, says, “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.” All Scripture that comes after this foundational material has been written in such a manner that it is assumed that there is a solid intimate knowledge of the foundational material. The rest of Scripture is given in such a way that it is assumed that it is going to be studied and taught with the previously laid foundation. When this is not done, you are going to find yourself dealing with commentary about a type, and this commentary presenting the antitype, without the basic understanding of the subject. You’re going to discover that you are trying to deal with the sinews, flesh, and skin without the framework to which they are to be attached and will hold them in place. This will lead you into grave error!

I cannot overemphasize to you the importance of understanding the foundation of Scripture! God has set this foundation forth in order for us to build upon it. The commentary, which relates back to these passages, assumes a deep and intimate understanding of these passages, and a lack of understanding of these foundational passages will lead to grave error and misunderstanding of subsequent Scriptures. Can you get a clear understanding of the gospel of spiritual salvation? Certainly. It cannot be any simpler. But, without this foundation, you will never grasp the meanings and types that God has set forth; you will miss the meat of the Word.

We read Genesis 21-25 earlier. In this account, Abraham is set forth as a type of God the Father, and Isaac set forth as a type of God the Son. This is presented clearly and without any doubts in chapter 22 where Abraham offers Isaac upon one of the mountains in the land of Moriah. This picture, or this type, points to God offering his son upon one of the mountains in the land of Moriah about 2,000 years later.

When God told Abraham to offer Isaac, he was specific as to the place where he was to do this. Genesis 22:2 says, “And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.” In retrospect, it is easy to see why he was so specific. Everything surrounding this event came together to form an unchangeable type, and the antitype is the whole of the events surrounding God one day offering his Son.

Genesis 22:14 says, “And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.” Jesus was apparently offered upon this same mount. Twice, God provided a substitute in this place.

Now, since Abraham is presented as a type of God the Father, it seems obvious that his wife, Sarah, is a type of the wife of Jehovah: Israel. This fits into place just like a piece of a puzzle within the typical structure that is set forth in these chapters in Genesis, and set forth in the antitype in the NT.

Sarah was barren, so she and Abraham, through their own efforts, tried to bring about God’s promise of a seed. After all, God needed a helping hand! They enlisted Hagar to bear the seed. What happens when we try to help God out? God doesn’t need our help. The world is still suffering for the actions of these two people today, in the descendents of Ishmael.

It should be noted that Ishmael was the child under the law. He still had an inheritance, but it wasn’t the better inheritance that was planned for the child of promise.

But, God always rejects the efforts of men when they take things upon themselves. In God’s eyes, the best efforts of man are no different than his worst. Why is that? [Isaiah 64:6] All of man’s efforts come from the same source: the flesh. God has rejected these things. God does things in his own time, and he doesn’t need the help of men! Because of her advanced age, Sarah was physically incapable of having a child. So, God had to perform a supernatural work to produce the child of promise.

Israel later appeared in the same barren condition. In the antitype, God did something similar. He took a young Jewish woman who had not known a man, so would not naturally be capable of childbirth, and through supernatural means, he brought forth Jesus, who was the one of whom Isaac was a type. Although Israel was barren, just as Sarah had been barren, Israel brought forth through a supernatural work, just as Sarah had.

In Genesis 21, we see the supernatural birth of Isaac, which is a type of the supernatural birth of Jesus. Then, in chapter 22, we see Abraham offering Isaac as a sacrifice, which is a type of Jesus being offered as a sacrifice. The next type we see is in chapter 23, and that’s the death of Sarah.

Sarah died following the offering of Isaac by Abraham upon Mount Moriah. What do we see in the antitype? Israel, who is the wife of Jehovah, died following the offering of the Christ. Israel, as a nation, was set aside for the dispensation, and is, in type, in the place of death.

This death, in type, is clear in corresponding types, such as Johan in the belly of the whale, or in the death of Lazarus in John 11. But, in both the type and the sign, Jonah and Lazarus were raised from the dead. In the same way, one day Israel will be raised out of the place of death. If you notice, both Jonah and Lazarus were raised on the third day. This points to Israel being raised on the third day as well. [Jonah 1:17-2:10; John 11:6-7; 11:43-44]

[Hebrews 11] In Genesis 22:4, we see that events occurred on the third day. These events involve Abraham receiving his son in a figure or in a parable. [Hebrews 11:17-19; figure; parable – same word] Although the type in the offering of Isaac is quite clear, emphasis is upon the parabolic aspect in Hebrews.

The word “parable” is from a compound Greek word, “parabolE”. “ParabolE” is from “para”, which means “alongside” and “bole”, which means to cast. So, it means to cast alongside. A parable is simply a subsequent truth place alongside a previous truth in order to help illuminate the previous truth.

A type is the opposite of a parable. It appears first and points to its antitype that will be revealed later.

A parable appears later and is cast alongside a previous truth, and a type appears first and points to the future. But, both are given for the exact same reason: To explain the things to which they relate.

Abraham offered Isaac on the mount that the Lord showed him, although a ram caught in the thicket died in Isaac’s place. Isaac died in a substitute and Abraham received his son in a parable. These things reflect back upon previous truths, in Genesis 3 and 4, in which we are first taught things that pertain to death and shed blood. These events also form a type. They point forward to the antitype, where the teachings that pertain to death and the shed blood are brought to a climax in Scripture.

Now, the third day points not only to the resurrection of Isaac in type, or Jesus in the antitype, but it also points to something else that is afar off: It points to that time when the firstborn sons will be raised up. Jesus, Israel, and the elect are to be raised up on the third day; they will be elevated to positions of power and authority in the third 1,000 year period from the crucifixion. This is the antitype of Abraham receiving his son from the dead.

On the third day, God will restore Israel; one of the firstborn sons. This is presented in type in Genesis 25. Abraham marries Keturah following the death of Sarah. But, when does this occur? It doesn’t occur until after the bride was acquired for Isaac in Genesis 24. The remarriage of Abraham points to the restoration of Israel. But, this restoration can only happen after the events that surround the present dispensation, which are covered in Genesis 24.

After Abraham’s eldest servant acquired a bride for Isaac, Abraham married Keturah. One thing we see about her is that she was not barren; she was fruitful! She bore him six sons. How many had Sarah borne without supernatural means? One. This points to the fruitfulness of Israel in that day that is coming soon, but not until after the restoration of Israel.

So, we see that Genesis 25 moves events into the Messianic era, and points to the future restoration of the nation of Israel, after the events that we see in Genesis 24. The events in Genesis 24 can only point to events in this dispensation in which we now find ourselves, and this current dispensation is sandwiched in between two points in time: That of Israel being set aside in Genesis 23 and when Israel will be restored in Genesis 25. Events in Genesis 24 point to the antitypes that occur during the period in which Israel is in the place of death. This covers two days, or 2,000 years. We find this in type in the story of Jonah that we talked about a few moments ago, and we see this in the sign of Lazarus being raised from the dead.

In Genesis 24, we are given events surrounding Abraham sending his eldest servant to acquire a bride for Isaac. This is the type. In the antitype, these events can only point to God the Father sending the Holy Spirit into the world to call out a bride for his son! Genesis 24 concerns God’s purpose for this dispensation in which we now find ourselves. It concerns the procurement of a bride for his son!

It’s evident that the events that are covered in Genesis 21-25 form one comprehensive type that is made up of several smaller types. The antitype takes us from the birth of the Messiah to the coming Messianic Kingdom.

If you grasp a thorough comprehension of the events in these chapters and the sequence of them, you will be able to place events in our current dispensation in the proper context. These events occur between Israel being set aside and Israel being restored. They have to do with God sending his Spirit into the world for one purpose: Acquiring a bride for his son.

A thorough understanding of events in the dealings of God with man during this present dispensation is directly connected to an understanding of events that occurred 4,000 years ago in Genesis 24. Much NT revelation concerning the existence of the Church in the world and the ministry of the Holy Spirit during the present dispensation offers little background explanation, but is a commentary. The revelation given in the NT is given in such a way that it assumes an intimate knowledge of previous things.

This is the way that you will find all NT revelation; presented as types and antitypes. The foundation of an understanding of the existence of the Church and the work of the Holy Spirit during this present dispensation has been given to us in OT types. They are revealed in NT antitypes. In order to understand NT revelations, you must obtain a thorough and intimate knowledge of things that are revealed in the OT.

 

I Matt 7 Christ states that in the end - only the FEW are saved. That means that at the first resurrection (Rev 20) the Resurrection of the "Dead in Christ" 1Thess 4 that happens 1000 years before the 2nd resurrection - it is only the "FEW" that are raised to life!

Then at the 2nd resurrection (1000 years later) we have the MANY raised and then thrown into the lake of fire.

In Christ,

Bob

 

J.Jump the way you and HofG are presenting this theroy about a partial bride don't make since. Then the stipulations of being part of the bride that will be chosen out of the church. I say it one more time...anyone (whosoever) who is saved (blood bought by Jesus) will be part of the Bride.