Are you among the few or many?

Perhaps you didn't read this part, so I reposted it.

 

Beama seat for Christians. Great white throne for non-believers. Everyone has their works judged, believers and non-believers alike. They are just not at the same time.

Hope that helps clarify things a bit.

 

Thank God for a Ten Page Limit!

Speaking to the Disciples about the future as it specifically related tot hem and their legacy...

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Even in the church marriages that start with a fervent love don't last for 50 years...

If I neglect my wife and allow myself to fall out of love with her it is at least theoretically possible for me to simply walk away without looking back...

Jesus said the love of many will wax cold...

They were in love at one time with the truth...

When I do not feel particularly "in love" with my wife I find that if I do a loving act for her it rekindles my own affection...

This is why, IMHO, in the rebuke to the Ephesian Church Jesus told them:

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Wow, Jesus mentions doing works... Or, else!

Ok, so some might say that only the Candlestick(Pastor) is removed... That still sounds pretty harsh.

The fact remains that both Faith and Works, and coming out from among them, are all taught in scripture...

For those truly in Love with Jesus these are not "Works" but fullfillment of Love...

Much as a wife does the laundry not as a work that has to be done... But, because she knows her husband has need of them and she loves her husband... It's no longer work... But, Love...

Like many Christian husbands that just suffer along, Christ, IMHO, won't divorce a lazy wife...

But, in the laziness, love may wax cold and the wife could just walk away from the marriage...

And, at some point you know you can't force them to stay...

1Co 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

Mike Sr.

Of course only a true fool would walk away from Jesus...

BTW: I agree Bema Seat for Believers Works and Great White Throne for unbelievers.

 

Talk about messed up views, the ten virgins werent all saved, 5 didnt have the Holy Spirit their lamps went out.

They were told by the Master to depart because they didnt know Him and the door was shut in their faces.

havent you guys ever read the entire thing?

 

So a person can have the Holy Spirit (because they all started with oil in their lamps) and then lose the Holy Spirit?

The Bible doesn't teach that. Once you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit He never leaves you. A Christian can quinch the Spirit and can grieve the Spirit, but the Spirit never ceases to indwell a saved individual.

They were all saved individuals. They all started with oil in their lamps. Unfortunately five of them were foolish and didn't keep oil in their lamps and were unprepared upon the return, as some Christians will be unprepared and ashamed when Christ raptures the church.

 

Claudia is right, the five foolish virgens had oil in their lamps, but it was not the Holy Spirit Oil.

It was the "strange fire " kind of oil. A fake, not real. Their lamps went out and the Lord said, I don't know who you are, when they finally did show up.

Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

Peace,

Tam

 

If you say you cant be sinless then you are saying this is a lie:

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"

2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

How can God tell us to cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh, perfecting holiness.... if it is something that is impossible for us to do?

It has to be possible to stop sinning and to be as perfect as God expects us to be because we have an example here:

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.


spotless means spotless... I just think people's definition of sinless needs to be looked at again, though.

I think it has alot more to do with attitude because we cant see Jesus exactly like He is... that alone would begin to enable to to be just like Him.

If you are rid of a rebellious attitude and surrender yourself fully to God... you have that sinless attitude though you may not exactly exactly exactly be like Jesus the perfect Pattern.

But you do love God with all your heart, soul and mind, which is the commandment.

I am not even sure what you all are talking about since I didnt go far enough back to read the posts, but I figured I may as well add my two cents worth. I hope you are talking about whether or not we are required to and can reach perfection of character.

Jesus wouldnt of told us to "be ye perfect" if doing so were an impossibility... and notice when He said that He defined that as loving those who hate you and despitefully use you, etc... then you look at "Peter's Ladder" where it tells us to add to your faith virtue and add to virtue knowledge... 2 Peter chapter 1... then at the very top of that ladder once again we see "charity" (verse 7) and now look here:

1Tm:1:5: Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned

a PURE HEART, AND GOOD CONSCIENCE... see how THAT is the key? whats in your heart and a clear conscience towards God, those are the keys... not miniscule tedious worrying that every little thing is just perfectly like Jesus... because we cant even see Jesus exactly as He is yet. We see everything through a glass darkly.

Claudia

[ April 20, 2006, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]

 

I hope I am talking about the right topic if not then just ignore me going on and on like I just did

 

not sure what "faith unfeigned" means though I Tim 1:5

 

Here's a Balancing Scripture set...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This is, IMHO, talking about present sin...

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

One of the Favorite Quotes...

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This is talking about past sins...


What is sin?

Simply put Sin is Missing The Mark...

One Greek Word for sin is a Military term that means literally, "To Miss The Mark"...

I have shot at the pistol range...

I am no marksman... The goal is to group all five shots of a group in the bullseeye...

I don't... I miss the mark...


As a Christian my goal is to be and do like Jesus...

This takes practice and attention to detail...

I am supposed to put on the Mind of Christ...

Not there yet... I am Missing the mark, the Target, the Bullseye and that is Jesus...

Therefore by definition I have 'sin'...

Even though I am empowered by the Holy Spirit to do all things...

That doesn't mean I have the proficiency to actually pull it off...

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

It is in the admission that we can fail Christ that we are most prepared to avoid that fall...

Please note that this is not intentional or premeditated sin...

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


Faith unfeigned means Sincere Faith, without pretense... Without Dissembling...

(My Pentecostal Peers ought to read that! )

Mike Sr.

 

what is sin?
even more simply put.

1John 3:4 "...sin is the transgression of the law..."

 

While you are technically/legally correct you miss a salient point...

Since Jesus, we are not under Law but Under Grace...

The requirements placed upon us are far more encompassing than just a list of the do's and don'ts in the Written Law...


Mat 22:39 And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

The NIV renders it thusly...
1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

The complete KJV is:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Reread the "Golden Rule" verses and you'll see we are both right.

When we fail to Act in Love that violation is equivalent to a breech of the Law as far as God is concerned...

Fortunately we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous...

And, He remains faithful and just to forgive us our sins if we confess them...

Mike Sr.

 

just because we are not under the law doesn't make it so we dont have to follow the law.

paul said that he found out what sin was by the law.

and now that Jesus has come and died and risen again... it IS possible for us to keep the law "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

Jesus said "I came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it."
paul also said "do we then make void the law? God forbid. Yea, we establish the law."
also "is the law then sin? God forbid..."

 

We have a Better Covenant. One ratified not by the blood of bulls but by the Precious Blood of Jesus...

You might want to reread Galatians 3?

As a gentile I am quite thankful that the Jerusalem council sent a small letter and not an obligation for the Torah...

Niether the Law nor Tithing was included in the standard sent out by the *real* Church Fathers to the new gentile churches.

Mike Sr.

 

and yet still... the new covenant was not made for the gentiles... but for the jews... same as the old covenant...

we just grafted in.

 

I am thankful that it is The Root that supports me and not some branch...

Grafted and Adopted... Not so bad...

Either way... Still a Joint Heir...


'
From the Jerusalem Council's Deliberations

Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?

And, denominations and church boards still test God by putting on the necks of disciples a yoke that neither they nor their fathers have been able to bear...

 

...and thats why I always say that I think it has more to do with attitude and clear conscience than anything else.

We do still have to keep the Law, the Bible says all over the place that we have to keep the commandments. It also says should we sin then because under grace and not under law? God Forbid!

The only bible definition given for sin is that it is the transgression of the law.

One thing many christians dont realize is that Jesus didnt give some new commandment when He said love God and love thy neighbor. He just brought it into a new light. It was something that His people had lost sight of.

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked Jesus a question, saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:36-40 The reason that Jesus said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" is because the first 4 commandments define love to God (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, etc.) and the last 6 define love to thy neighbor (Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal). This same idea is repeated by the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans:

"...he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended (summarized) in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. " Romans 13:8,9: So you see then that love to God and neighbor is merely a SUMMARY of or is briefly comprehended in the Ten Commandment Law. And not only that but both Jesus and Paul were merely reiterating what had already been declared in old Testament times! Watch this:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4,5.

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18.

Sound familiar? Jesus was merely quoting directly out of the old testament when He said Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

God's claims have always been the same. Jesus did not really give us a "new" commandment to keep, He was bringing to light the foundation principles of love which have always underlined the ten commandments of old. This is why John said the following words:

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning." I John 2:3-7. The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:17.

Romans 6:11-16 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

 

Jms:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

but then again we have that. If you dont know something is a sin then...

 

Live in God's Grace and TRUST Him to show you when you *start* to get His attention in a negative way?

I have to admit I don't understand all the ramifications here... But, these are the first scriptures to be brought to mind...

1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
1 John 3:19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence
1 John 3:20 whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

I suspect this is two part...

If we are acting in Love we won't Sin. Either against our brothers and sisters. Or, against God.

But, if we are condemned in our hearts... We've probably missed something and were not acting in Love...

And, when we are dense:

Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

If we have True Friends...

And, if we fail to listen then... Watch Out! They start praying!

Matthew 18:31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

I've had few True Friends who were willing to let me know when I've really hurt someone...

And, when they've come to me and related the 'sin' I been pricked in my heart to make it right...

Sometimes when I've been really 'drifty stupid'... It's not at all easy to do...

Mike Sr.

 

How true! We are commanded to live by faith, but we can't live by faith and ignore the law. Just because we're not under the law doesn't mean we're above it either. You cannot lie, steal, cheat, murder, commit adultery, etc., and still live by faith.

In Galatians 2:16-17, there are three things being talked about: Faith, law, and salvation:

Faith is a lifestyle. It’s not an event. It can be stopped.
Law is a lifestyle. It’s not an event. It can be stopped. There are two sets of laws:

Moral Law – We can live in the moral law. We can not steal, lie, murder, etc. It’s not an event; it’s a lifestyle. We have to be obedient to the commandments.

Ceremonial Law – has to do with the ordinances that God gave Moses on the mountain and were established when the children of Israel set up the tabernacle and the temple in Jerusalem and the people came to offer animal sacrifices.

When we see the word “law”, there’s a distinction: There’s the moral law and there is the ceremonial law. Both can be stopped. The children of Israel didn’t have to go to the temple. A male was required by the law to go down three times per year, and he could simply stop. We don’t live under the ceremonial law today. We don’t have to go down to the temple three times per year and offer animal sacrifices, but we are under the moral law.

Salvation is an event. It either happens, or it doesn’t. You either believe on the Lord Jesus and that he died on the cross for your sins, or you don’t. If you believe, you’re saved; if you don’t, you’re not.

Justification is by faith. “That we might be justified by faith.” Because justification is by faith, and faith is a lifestyle, justification will depend upon your lifestyle. Justification is not an event; it’s a process. The reason it’s a process is because it’s by faith. Faith is a process. Without faith, it’s impossible to please God. We’re going to have to please God, if we’re going to stand approved. That’s what justification is about; it’s about standing approved.