Women, the Assembly of the Saints, and the Modern World

Big government and big business have persuaded women that working in the business world is better than being a housewife. Rich white surburban women want high taxes and high welfare and low wages. They are exempt from the drudgery of low-paying jobs. Unions have lost buying power so that the working man cannot afford to buy a house and car and send his children to college. The church has been asleep or in favor of the changes. Even worse the church has sided with Islam to a large degree, especially people such as J.D. Greear and Pope Francis as well as the Episcopal Church.

 

Steven, one more thing. Here is a short beautifully illustrated version of a pithy comment by 20th century English Roman Catholic theologian G.K. Chesterton about what the West has done to women (although women have voted to go along with the lesbians, feminists, leftists and monopolists who have sought to enslave women):

 

Phoebe delivering a letter is somehow counter to the Bible's "notion" that women should be submissive???

 

Yes, feminism is winning. In the SBC, a rebellion against the turn-of-the-millennium warmongers in leadership has brought in relatively liberal leadership. The current SBC president, Greear, said, "Failure to include [women] in proportionate measures at top leadership roles have hindered our ability to see sin and injustice and call it out." He openly wants half of the SBCs top leaders to be women. Obviously, he believes women should be pastors, he's just not honest enough to say it now.

The NASB translation's next update will include gender-neutral alterations.

 

Greear is not very smart but then neither is Russell Moore and neither is Pope Francis.

 

For sure feminism and leftism in general are sneaking into the church.

The irony is, a strong moral wife is a key qualification for an elder or deacon. They implication seems to be, that single men are not qualified. They need to prove they can live in harmony with a wife. Also, the implication seems to be that ministry is a couple's job. Leadership is not something for men to do on their own. All this is lost when the church compromises on this issue.

 

The question is, was Paul an elder, technically? and was Paul ever married?

If living in harmony with a wife is a qualification for an elder and deacon, then a widower is qualified. I just don't know if a single man, never married is qualified. Every implication, is that a godly partner in wife, is essential for a successful leader.

 

There is nothing wrong with being single and nothing wrong with being married--one is not better than the other.

 

You make a good case. I'm still going to disagree, but without dogmatism. The qualifications that require an elder to be a married man, in no way denigrate women or single men. It's just a matter of qualifications for a specific role. That's all. It's not a question of worth.

Bottom line for me, Scripture lists married man as a qualification. It's explicit. Yes, there are other passages that say singleness doesn't denigrate worth. I agree with that also. But I would no more use that to justify single never married pastors than I would female pastors. It's not a matter of worth, it's a matter of role.

 

I’m sorry for the delay. I’ve been busy. Let’s go through this.

My overall emphasis about this is that you need to look at the narrative in the Bible, not just the expository text. If you decide to only to only gain insight through the expository text, you’re reading the Bible like a Pagan and might end up following the teachings of Plotinus.

Jesus taught in narrative as well and God generally has communicated to us in stories. That’s why he sent Jesus down and not some golden disks.

So I will go ahead and point out the stories you left out with are pertinent to women. Obviously, I’m not perfect but I will try to give a good listing.

1. Women are to obey their husband. The story that immediately comes to mind is the Comedy Esther. When reading it as a story I laughed so hard at this one point:

Esther 1:19-20 NLT
[19] "So if it please the king, we suggest that you issue a written decree, a law of the Persians and Medes that cannot be revoked. It should order that Queen Vashti be forever banished from the presence of King Xerxes, and that the king should choose another queen more worthy than she. [20] When this decree is published throughout the king's vast empire, husbands everywhere, whatever their rank, will receive proper respect from their wives!"

Declaring a rule, law, or whatever for a wife to obey the husband and expecting that that law will make it so is silly. It is a complete misunderstanding of how rulership works.

Jesus ruled by washing his disciples feet. His disciples submitted to his rule by letting him do it. Submission needs to be understood from the viewpoint of Jesus’s upside-down kingdom.

2. Reminds me of Ruth.

Ruth 3:7 NLT
[7] After Boaz had finished eating and drinking and was in good spirits, he lay down at the far end of the pile of grain and went to sleep. Then Ruth came quietly, uncovered his feet, and lay down.

Being quiet can lead to good things.

3. Duh.

4. I guess we have to rip this chapter out of the Bible if we can’t ever let women teach.

Proverbs 31:1 NLT
[1] The sayings of King Lemuel contain this message, which his mother taught him.

You also have the problem of Deborah and Huldah.

Generally speaking, I think women should avoid to temptation of wanting to control men and they should therefore want to avoid leadership positions over men. However, in cases where the men won’t stand up like Deborah, then it should be fine for a woman to take charge, at least temporarily. And women could definitely help with the teaching.

I do believe care must be taken to not invoke the curse in Genesis.

Paul was generally talking to Romans who were use to a patriarchal society and he always tried his best not to provoke the Romans by overthrowing tradition.

Jesus used the woman at the well to spread the news.

Women are not meant to just be a man’s arm decoration in the Bible.

ran out of time. Continue later.

 

Sorry, you misunderstood me or maybe I didn't write well. I think I didn't write well. Running out of time again. I was referring to

Genesis 3:16 NLT
Then he said to the woman, “I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you. ”

(emphasis added)

In other words, I believe the desire to control the husband is not a good desire and that women should not be placed in a position or place where this desire will become a difficulty for them or a stumbling block.

I didn't fully develop the last part. Sorry. Just posted and went to sleep.

Yeah, I think invoke was the wrong word - my apologies.