When Does God Send People Strong Delusions To Believe Lies?

Danthemailman said:

... the new covenant ...

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Psa_61:5 For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.

Hebrews 8:9 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 KJB - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 8:11 KJB - And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 KJB - For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 8:13 KJB - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10:15 KJB - Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hebrews 10:16 KJB -This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Hebrews 10:17 KJB - And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:18 KJB - Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

2 Corinthians 3:3 KJB - Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Which is citing the Old Testament passages of:

Jeremiah 31:31 KJB - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:32 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jeremiah 31:33 KJB - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:34 KJB - And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Ezekiel 36:25 KJB - Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Ezekiel 36:26 KJB - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:27 KJB - And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Ezekiel 36:28 KJB - And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ezekiel 36:29 KJB - I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

Ezekiel 37:26 KJB - Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

Ezekiel 37:27 KJB - My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The passage of Jeremiah 31:31-33 proves that the Ten Commandments are at the core of the New Covenant (As does Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, and many other such places). Jeremiah, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, specifically refers to God's "my law", which in context, and all throughout Jeremiah, Isaiah, and in Exodus is the Ten Commandments.

Exo_16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

Isa_51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Jer_6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Jer_9:13 And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein;

Jer_16:11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;

Jer_26:4 And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you,

Jer_44:10 They are not humbled even unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers.

Eze_22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

What the New Covenant (aka Everlasting and Eternal Covenant, the Covenant of Life and Peace, etc) replaced, was the 'old' Covenant, which according to Exodus 19 and Hebrews 8, etc is not the Ten Commandments.

In Exodus 19 are two covenants. God's eternal and theirs.

Moses as Mediator of the 'old' covenant:

Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Their human promises in Exodus 19 were faulty, and they broke them almost immediately.

The Ten Commandments are never faulty, being the perfect promises of God:

Psa_19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Danthemailman said:

... the new covenant ...

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The "my covenant" in Exodus 19:5, is sometimes called "His covenant", and are the Ten Commandments. Thee are the perfect promises of God, even a transcription of His perfect character as transcribed by the Holy Ghost. Most look upon them in the side of judgment, rather than the side of mercy.

Notice, that this is not the "covenant" they made. It already existed and was with God and even Abraham knew of this.

Their covenant was "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do."

Even basic and well known commentaries understand this salient point.

Some attempt to cite Deuteronomy 5:3, to try to prove that the Ten Commandments are the 'old' Covenant, but they have to eisegetically read that into the text, and ignore the two differing covenants in Exodus 19. The Ten Commandments are in the 'old' Covenant, true, but they are not the 'old' Covenant itself. The 'old' Covenant is their faulty promises to obey God in all things, by their own power/strength. They are also in the New Covenant, for they "remain" and are more glorious being lighted by the face of Jesus Christ.

Same Law, differing ministrations, or administrations (their promises/God's promises (for each of the 10C are eternal promises of God in the NC, for God will bring about obedience, not for salvation, but in it, by His grace, through faith ...)

Same Law, differing mediators (Moses/Jesus).

Same Law, differing location (stone/heart).

Same Law, differing material (two tables stone/two tables of the fleshy mind (brain))

Same Law, differing glories (Moses face faded away/Jesus face eternally glorified)

Consider:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus just cited from Deuteronomy 6:5 (in the context of Deut. 5, Ten C.) and Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of "sin" (1 John 3:4) which is again a reference to the Ten Commandments.

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

What "words"? They are the words in Deut 5, which repeated Exodus 20:1-17.

Deu 6:17 Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Love God supremely is the Greatest (Commandments 1-4)
Love neighbour is the second (Commandments 5-10).

Matthew 5 even speaks of these, as Jesus explains the depth of the Ten Commandments in their order:

Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.

There is not a single scripture in the Bible which states what you just said. Again, persons eisegetically add their own words.

If you really think that the 'oc' = TC = 'the law', follow your logic through here:

For instance:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Let's play the game of substitution using your definition of 'oc'.

(antinomian substitution version) Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the "OC" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "OC".

Now let's do the same with Jeremiah 31:33:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Again, play the game of substitution:

(antinomian substitution version) Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my "OC" in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Danthemailman said:

... the new covenant ...

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Why the Old Covenant Failed, page 3, 9 & 11 -

“... [Page 3] No one can deny that there are Old Testament statements that refer to the Ten Commandments as a covenant; however, it will be our purpose here to show that the Ten-Commandment law was not the Old Covenant that was abolished ...”

“... [Page 9] we must go back in the Bible to see that there was more than one covenant involved at Mt. Sinai. God called Moses up into the mountain before He gave the law and proposed a covenant between Him and His people: [Exodus 19:3-6 cited] ...”

“... [Page 11] [citing Exodus 24:4-8] And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.”

Again we are reminded that this covenant was not the law itself but was made “concerning all these words.” The Ten Commandments were the basis for the agreement. The people promised to keep that law, and God promised to bless them in return. ...”

The Ten Commandments were never bondage, but begin with God's grace and bringing out of bondage:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

That's salvation by grace.

More mercy and grace and obedience through Love:

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The same:

Exo_33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest from what?

Sin:

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Imagine that. The Sabbath Day of the LORD was the day of healing and the preaching of the Gospel to free all from sin, just as Daniel foretold, and so many others.

Just as laws of the land are not made for the righteous, since they already do not do that which is proscribed, or do that which is written.

It doesn't negate the law of God.

"... It was, therefore, not made for the righteous as a restrainer of crimes, and an inflicter of punishments; for the righteous avoid sin, and by living to the glory of God expose not themselves to its censures. This seems to be the mind of the apostle; he does not say that the law was not Made for a righteous man, but ου κειται, it does not Lie against a righteous man; because he does not transgress it: but it lies against the wicked; for such as the apostle mentions have broken it, and grievously too, and are condemned by it. ..." - Adam Clarke's Commentary

"... Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,.... No man is naturally righteous since Adam, excepting the man Christ Jesus: some that are righteous in their own opinion, and in the esteem of others, are not truly and really so; none are righteous, or can be justified in the sight of God by the works of the law; those only are righteous men, who are made so through the imputation of Christ's righteousness to them: and such a righteous man is here intended, who believes in Christ with the heart unto righteousness, who lays hold on Christ's righteousness, and receives it by faith; in consequence of which he lives soberly, righteously, and godly, though not without sin, since there is no such just man upon earth. Now for such a man the law was not made; which must be understood not of its original constitution and make, for it was certainly made for, and given to Adam, who was a righteous man, and was written upon his heart in a state of innocence; and who had a positive law made also for him, and given to him as a trial of his obedience to this: it was also delivered to the Israelites on Mount Sinai, who were, many of them, at least, righteous men; and besides all this, the law was made for Jesus Christ; he was the end, the mark, and scope at which it aimed, and for whose sake it was given to Israel, that he might be made under it, and fulfil it. Nor does this expression deny all use of the law to a righteous man, which has been pointed out on the preceding verse, but only removes an unlawful use, and a wrong end of the law: it never was made with any such view as to obtain righteousness by it; for, a righteous man, as Adam, in innocence, and all that are justified by Christ's righteousness, need it not for such a purpose, because they are already righteous; and sinners can never attain to righteousness by it, since it cannot give life unto them: it is made therefore not for the former with the view now mentioned, but for the latter, and that both for the restraining of sin, and punishing of sinners. The words δικαιω νομος ου κειται, may be rendered, "the law does not lie upon a righteous man", or against him. It does not lie as a weight or burden on him; its precept does not lie on him, as a task to be performed; nor does its penalty, the curse, lie on him as a punishment to be bore by him: it does not lie upon him, nor against him, as an accusing law, its mouth is stopped by the righteousness of Christ, by which he is denominated a righteous man; nor as a terrifying law, and bringing into bondage by its threats and menaces; nor as a rigorous law, obliging to obedience in a forcible and compulsive way; seeing there is no need of it, the righteous man delights in it, and cheerfully serves it, and the love of Christ constrains him to obey it freely. And much less does it lie on him, or against him as a cursing or condemning law, since Christ has redeemed him from the curse of it, ..." - John Gills Commentary

Will they read? Will they even bother to consider:

Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

Right dan?

Neither you or 3rdAngel are fooling me or my brothers and sisters in Christ on the Baptistboard with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and we are neither dazzled or baffled by your long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda. Many of us here are getting tired of wasting our time beating a dead horse as neither one of you have eyes to see or ears to hear and your true colors are obvious.

Danthemailman said:

Neither you or 3rdAngel are fooling me or my brothers and sisters in Christ on the Baptistboard with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and we are neither dazzled or baffled by your long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda. Many of us here are getting tired of wasting our time beating a dead horse as neither one of you have eyes to see or ears to hear and your true colors are obvious.

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Hmmm nice come back that responds to all the scriptures that disagrees with you Dan that show why you are in error. Your only tricking and fooling yourself my dear brother if you think you can knowingly practice sin and enter into Gods Kingdom. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it dissappear.

3rdAngel said:

Hmmm nice come back that responds to all the scriptures that disagrees with you Dan that show why you are in error. Your only tricking yourself my dear brother if you think you can knowingly practice sin and enter into Gods Kingdom. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it dissappear.

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It's not about a nice comeback (that you won't have ears to hear anyway) or a continued verbal boxing match and whoever gets in the last word wins the fight. I have already responded to numerous scriptures that have been twisted by SDA's in previous posts, but it's just a waste of time arguing with SDA's which is like arguing with a shady lawyer who is out to win their case at all costs, no matter how much scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and propaganda that it takes. You are not qualified to judge me or represent the gospel, so your slander is moot. Refusing to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL does not make the gospel go away. You will be held accountable for perverting the gospel and teaching others to do the same. I sincerely hope and pray that one day you will come to accept the truth and find your way out of the SDA cult.

Danthemailman said:

It's not about a nice comeback (that you won't have ears to hear anyway) or a continued verbal boxing match and whoever gets in the last word wins the fight. I have already responded to numerous scriptures that have been twisted by SDA's in previous posts, but it's just a waste of time arguing with SDA's which is like arguing with a shady lawyer who is out to win their case at all costs, no matter how much scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and propaganda that it takes. You are not qualified to judge me or represent the gospel, so your slander is moot. Refusing to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL does not make the gospel go away. You will be held accountable for perverting the gospel and teaching others to do the same. I sincerely hope and pray that one day you will come to accept the truth and find your way out of the SDA cult.

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Dan I was being sarcastic you never made a come back response to the scriptures that show why you are in error accept to ignore and deny Gods Word and make false statements you cannot prove with scripture. You have no scripture for your position so all you do is provide false accusations, allegations and name calling because you have no response to the scriptures that have only been sent in love and as a help to you that disagree with you and show why you are in error. This has only revealed to you that you cannot deny God's Word and that you are promoting a false Gospel. I do not judge you the Word of God that you deny is our judge *JOHN 12:47-48 and your fruits are showing *MATTHEW 7:15-26; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

3rdAngel said:

Dan I was being sarcastic. You have no scripture for your position so all you do is provide false accusations, allegations and name calling because you have no response to the scriptures that have only been sent in love and as a help to you that disagree with you and show why you are in error. This has only revealed to you that you cannot deny God's Word and that you are promoting a false Gospel. I do not judge you the Word of God that you deny is our judge *MATTHEW 12:47-48 and your fruits are showing *MATTHEW 7:15-26; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

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I have provided numerous scriptures for my position in previous posts, but all you have done is twisted those scriptures to support your works based false gospel, so further discussion is a waste of time, but go right ahead and continue with your false accusations, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda. You have truly earned the name of SHADY LAWYER. If the shoe fits, wear it! Make no mistake, it's you who is promoting a false gospel and your fruits and true colors are obvious for all believers on the Baptistboard to see. BTW: SDA scripture twisting is not sent in love. Don't flatter yourselves.

Danthemailman said:

I have provided numerous scriptures for my position in previous posts, but all you have done is twisted those scriptures to support your works based false gospel, so further discussion is a waste of time, but go right ahead and continue with your false accusations, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda. You have truly earned the name of SHADY LAWYER. If the shoe fits, wear it! Make no mistake, it's you who is promoting a false gospel and your fruits and true colors are obvious for all believers on the Baptistboard to see. BTW: SDA scripture twisting is not sent in love. Don't flatter yourselves.

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Dan the scriptures that you have provided are not the problem. Everyone you have provided have been dealt with showing your interpretation of them is in error by showing the context you leave out by cherry picking the scriptures and by dealing directly with your premise and interpretion you apply to them. In response you ignore the scriptures provided and only sent in love as a help to you and start all your name calling and false allegations you cannot prove with the scriptures because you are not able to respond to the scriptures in the posts that show why you are in error. This is sad for you brother. Ignoring and denying God's Word does not make it dissappear as it will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48

3rdAngel said:

No brother your confused and here is why...

God's "FORGIVENESS" is "CONDITIONAL" on "BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GODS WORD" in the "present tense" to "BELIEVING" or continuing to believe *JOHN 3:15-21; MATTHEW 7:24-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

All those who do not "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD (present tense)" do not have Gods forgiveness *HEBREWS 10:26-39; 1 JOHN 1:9; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

The Greek indicating "ου μη" is only in reference to those who "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD (present tense)" It is not in reference to those who do not "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD" or to those who "BELIEVED AND FOLLOWED GODS WORD (past tense)" yesterday and have departed the faith to no longer "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD" today *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

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Repeating the references which you interpret once saved, and then lost. Does not answer your understanding of the Greek . . . ου μη . . . in Hebrews 10:17. And does not disprove Hebrews 10:17 teaches an non reversable forgiveness. In constrast to a reversable forgiveness, where one must forgive in order to be forgiven, Mark 11:26, ". . . if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. . . ." Conditional and not a OSAS teaching.

Please take the time and give your explanation of the Greek . . . ου μη . . . in Hebrews 10:17. Else you are wrong (and do not know it). And Hebrews 10:16-18 is a key proof text of OSAS. And is unrefuted. Mere denial does not disprove anything.

Danthemailman said:

... You are not a lawyer ...

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Danthemailman said:

... You have truly earned the name of SHADY LAWYER. ...

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Contradiction, after contradiction.

37818 said:

...And Hebrews 10:16-18 is a key proof text of OSAS. And is unrefuted. ...

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Hebrews 10 refers to the two things that must be done to be cleansed from all sin.

[1] have sin blotted out of the books (written record)

[2] God forgets (memory)

If God forgets (as in forgives the sin), the sin is covered by the blood, but still written in the books of record, and when opened will bring to 'remembrance' the sins committed. Yet if the sins in the books are blotted out, and God also 'forgets', then and only then will the person be as though they had never sinned.

Forgiveness (Matthew 18, etc) can be revoked. The Unforgivable sin (Mark 3:29) cannot never be cleansed.

[1] sins covered, remain on record until blotted out

[2] blotted out sins, are gone for good, and no longer need to be covered

You are grossly mistaken 37818.

Alofa Atu said:

Hebrews 10 refers to the two things that must be done to be cleansed from all sin.

[1] have sin blotted out of the books (written record)

[2] God forgets (memory)

If God forgets (as in forgives the sin), the sin is covered by the blood, but still written in the books of record, and when opened will bring to 'remembrance' the sins committed. Yet if the sins in the books are blotted out, and God also 'forgets', then and only then will the person be as though they had never sinned.

Forgiveness (Matthew 18, etc) can be revoked. The Unforgivable sin (Mark 3:29) cannot never be cleansed.

[1] sins covered, remain on record until blotted out

[2] blotted out sins, are gone for good, and no longer need to be covered

You are grossly mistaken 37818.

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No. You are in err.

37818 said:

Repeating the references which you interpret once saved, and then lost. Does not answer your understanding of the Greek . . . ου μη . . . in Hebrews 10:17. And does not disprove Hebrews 10:17 teaches an non reversable forgiveness. In constrast to a reversable forgiveness, where one must forgive in order to be forgiven, Mark 11:26, ". . . if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. . . ." Conditional and not a OSAS teaching.

Please take the time and give your explanation of the Greek . . . ου μη . . . in Hebrews 10:17. Else you are wrong (and do not know it). And Hebrews 10:16-18 is a key proof text of OSAS. And is unrefuted. Mere denial does not disprove anything.

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Already answered. The Greek indicating "ου μη" is only in reference to those who "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD (present tense)" It is not in reference to those who do not "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD" or to those who "BELIEVED AND FOLLOWED GODS WORD (past tense)" yesterday and have departed the faith to no longer "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GODS WORD" today as shown in both *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39. Quoting HEBREWS 10:26-39 in reference "ου μη" from HEBREWS 10:14 in the same chapter is proof that shows what is being shared with you here is correct and your interpretation is in error because if your interpretation of HEBREWS 10:14-17 was correct then there would be no need for the warnings provided in Gods Word for "BELIEVERS" not to depart the faith in HEBREWS 10:26-39. "ου μη" from HEBREWS 10:14 does not teach "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" it teaches those who "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW" God's WORD (present tense) are saved and HEBREWS 10:26-39 further on teaches those who do not continue to believe and follow God's WORD will not be saved.

May you receive Gods Word and be blessed

3rdAngel said:

Already answered the Greek indicating "ου μη" . . . .

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Just saying this and that, did not give the meaning of "ου μη," nor how it sets the promise of forgiveness in Hebrews 10:17. It is used some 84 times throughout the NT. Not just in Hebrews 10:17.

37818 said:

Just saying this and that, did not give the meaning of "ου μη" nor how it sets the promise of forgiveness in Hebrews 10:17. It is used some 84 times throughout the NT. Not just in Hebrews 10:17.

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Brother I am not saying this and that. You have been provided scripture and it shows why your interpretation of it is in error. Please take the time to re-read what was shared with you. Now let me ask you a simple question that may help and you tell me the answer.

If your interpretation of ου μη in HEBREWS 10:14-17 means "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" why is the same writer in the same chapter "WARNING" believers they can lose their salvation in HEBREWS 10:26-39 and HEBREWS 6:4-8?

All of God's promises from GENESIS to REVELATION and God's salvation is always "CONDITIONAL" on "BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD" *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:24-26; JOHN 3:15-21; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

The reference and meaning of "ου μη" is true in all the scriptures for God's promises that use this GREEK word, but it's application is only to "BELIEVERS" (present tense) not "UNBELIEVERS" or those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS" and fall away and depart the faith to become unbelievers *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Receive God's Word and be blessed brother

Back to the OP...

When Does God Send People Strong Delusions To Believe Lies?

When we receive a "KNOWLEDGE" of the truth of Gods Word and willfully reject it in order follow sin *HEBREWS 10:26-39; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 3:15-21; JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17

3rdAngel said:

If your interpretation of ου μη in HEBREWS 10:14-17 means "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" why is the same writer in the same chapter "WARNING" believers they can lose their salvation in HEBREWS 10:26-39 and HEBRES 6:4-8?

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The latter is your understand imposed on the text. Not my understanding. You can not answer a one verse question without throwing in and imposing your your overall view. What hope do you think you have that is better than God's promise to never bring to rememberence one's sins? Hebrews 10:17? .Never.

37818 said:

The latter is your understand imposed on the text. Not my understanding. You can not answer a one verse question without throwing in and imposing your your overall view. What hope do you think you have that is better than God's promise to never bring to rememberence one's sins? Hebrews 10:17? .Never.

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Well that is not true brother. It is you that imposed your understanding on the text. You were only provided scripture that proves that what I am saying is true as I have only provided God's Word to you that shows why you are in error and all you have done in this post is avoided answering the question asked of you that proves this. All of Gods promises are true but only to those who "BELIEVE and FOLLOW" His Word.