Our people in Heaven

In 2 Cor 5 Paul describes THREE states for mankind.

#1. Clothed in this earthly decaying "tent".
#2. Unclothed - naked without a tent/dwelling (in death)
#3. Clothed with our eternal tent - eternal body made in heaven for us.

Paul argues that our desire is NOT to be in the unclothed stated NOR even to continue in this earthly decaying tent state - but rather the heavenly body - the heavenly tent.

His argument in 2Cor 5 is NOT "To be absent from this body IS TO BE present with the Lord" rather he states this as a desire to NOT ONLY be absent from this body but ALSO to reach that 3rd state "at home with the Lord" so he says "I prefer to be absent from this body AND TO BE present with the Lord".

But the religion of many "Needs a definition" that would have said "TO BE absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord" as if "being absent" is all that is needed.

How instructive the slight change in scripture that is needed by some traditions.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You're reading more into that passage than what it actually says. This is II Corinthians 5:6 and Philippians 1:23-24 from the New Greek English Interlinear New Testament by Robert K. Brown and Philip W. Comfort:

BEING CONFIDENT THEREFORE ALWAYS AND KNOWING THAT BEING AT HOME IN THE BODY WE ARE AWAY FROM HOME AWAY FROM THE LORD.

NOW I AM HARD-PRESSED FROM TWO SIDES, THE DESIRE HAVING TO DEPART AND WITH CHRIST TO BE, FOR MUCH MUCH BETTER THIS IS, BUT TO REMAIN IN THE FLESH IS MORE NECESSARY FOR THE SAKE OF YOU.

WHEN WE ARE AT HOME IN THE BODY WE ARE AWAY FROM HOME AWAY FROM THE LORD. Where is the Lord? In Paradse, which is where believers go when they die. Their bodies sleep in the gave but not their spirits and they don't have to wait until Judgment Day to be with the Lord.

St. Paul is desiring to depart and be with Christ, but he also believed it was more necessary for him to remain in the flesh for the sake of the Phillipians. What he was saying that when he dies, he will be outside the flesh and be with Christ. Where is Christ? In Paradise. Don't read more into it than what is there. He didn't say, "I will sleep in the grave until Judgment Day and then be with Christ."

Physical death is not extinction but separation of the soul or spirit from the body. Spiritual death is what the unsaved experience, in which they will be separated from God.

[ April 16, 2006, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: JFox1 ]

 

Well Bob........

What about the theif that was hanging there with Jesus?

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Are you gonna say Jesus didn't mean it that way? That settles it for me. That to be absent from the body (dead) is to be present with the Lord!

 

Actually I am reading ALL the details from 2Cor 5:1-8 EXACTLY as it reads (I use NASB but it reads the same from the English Interlinear when you look at the full scope vs 1 through 8) - you are simply ignoring the details you don't like and then of course we see the "invention" of the text "TO BE absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord". A text not found in 2Cor 5 at all

A text not found in Phil 2 "at all".

If you had it - you would have posted it.

But you do have "other texts" from which to make your argument and we can observe the strength and weakness of your argument in those texts as well.

I just thought it was "perfect" that the "invented text" would be quoted here SHOWING what man's tradition "needed to find" in scripture - but never found.

Remember I am not the one that made up that quote and claimed it was the basis for your tradition - you did.

I am just thanking you for making it up and showing how it is so necessary to your views.

In Christ,

Bob

 

2 Corinthians 5
The Temporal and Eternal (part 1 of 2)

When we consider that there are no chapter breaks in the letter as Paul wrote it - it becomes easy to see how this idea of the "earthly tent being torn down" is simply a continuation of the concept in chapter 4 of the "Outer man decaying". This provides important linkage and continuity between chapter 4 and 5.
2Cor 4:16 but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

Anchor Link: "Earthly Tent Torn down" - used as continuation of the "Outer man decaying" in chapter 4.

This is not really a point of debate among Christians who see harmony in taking both of these key phrases as referring to the same event - our mortal bodies wearing away.

Key Link : "ETERNAL vs non-eternal in chapter 5 as it was in chapter 4.

The contrast between the eternal attribute of the "house in heaven" vs the earthly tent - is a continuation of the chapter 4 concept contrasting the Eternal "unseen things" with the "temporal" mortal things of this world.

KEY Problem: Eternal Body made in heaven

This brings up an immediate problem with second view of the nature of man - held by Christians today. As already stated, that view man has an earthly body, at death he receives an eternal body in heaven, at the resurrection he receives another eternal body as in 1Corinthians 15. Clearly, one spirit with two eternal bodies is problematic. One solution is to try to get the "eternal body" received at death to "go away" about the time our "immortal soul" gets it's resurrected body.

Unfortunately the "ETERNAL" attribute assigned here in chapter 5 to the "heavenly tent" does not allow us to conclude that it does not endure. The second view requires that we are immediately "present with the Lord" at death, complete with an eternal body that does NOT endure past the future resurrection at the coming of Christ - where we receive immortal bodies as clearly stated in
1Corinthians 15.

This is not a problem for the first view where man may have three states; Earthly body decaying during this life, Absent from earthly body - during death and before resurrection, an finally "Present with the Lord" at the resurrection with a resurrected ETERNAL body (as in 1Corinthians 15).

However, to this point Paul has only dealt with TWO states. The earthly and the heavenly - NOT three. So unless he can show a third intervening state between the mortal decaying state and the heavenly eternal state (which would allow us to defer the second state until the resurrection) we will have a problem with the "eternal" aspect of the heavenly tent.

Anchor Point and Link: "heavenly bodies vs earthly bodies with 1Corinthians 15

The contrast between "earthly" tent and "heavenly" tent - uses the same Key Word contrast between (earthly and heavenly) that we find in 1Corinthains 15.
1Cor15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.

Once we have this LINKAGE 1Corinthians 15 and that of 2Corinthians 5 we take further note of the fact that 1Corinthians 15 places this contrast (between heavenly and earthly) in the CONTEXT of the future resurrection.

Paul will now provide two key anchor points - one will link us back to the discussion of the resurrection in Romans 8 and the other will provide the three-state model of man required by one of the contending views for the nature of man.

Key Phrase: "WE GROAN" Linked in Romans 8 - CONTEXT of the resurrection.

Notice that Romans 8 (written after 2Corinthians 5) EXPANDS this "groaning" of the saints and notes that creation itself has reason to be "groaing" as well as the saints. Longing for the SAME event as the saints on earth. Because creation receives anticipated RELEIF at the time when BOTH the saints are freed from mortality and NATURE itself is freed from the corruption and destruction caused by sinful mankind. Clearly this key concept of "groaning" is used in Romans 8 with respect to the resurrection and coming of Christ. The linkage between these two chapters indicates a shared context again.

We also note above that Paul has introduced three states of man.
Third State: "being UNCLOTHED" is Undesired - the cause of REAL groaning and "burdened".
Unclothed is the state of having NEITHER the earthly tent NOR the heavenly. 2Corinthians 5 treats it as a REAL concern. Real enough to cause "groaning".

:2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed
[/quote]

It is helpful to consider two models that might illustrate the two opposing views of the nature of man as it relates to 2Cor 5. In the first model man's decaying physical condition may be compared to a leaky wooden boat on the ocean. As the boat takes on water the occupant of the boat realizes that they will soon be left swimming without a boat. At some point in the distance is the prospect of an ocean liner coming to the rescue. The "groaning" and earnest "longing" of the leaky boat occupant is that the ocean liner arrives before the boat completely sinks. The liner will arrive in any case, but the occupant would prefer not to have tread water during the difference in time between the arrival of the ocean liner and the inevitable sinking of the leaky boat. Clearly 3 STATES of the occupant are possible, although only ONE is desired (the ocean liner).

In the second model - illustrating the second view of man - our decaying physical body is compared to a fuse of a bomb. The fuse is burning and will inevitable burn out as it disappears into the heart of the bomb. The bomb itself represents the much more glorious eternal heavenly body. There is in fact NO possibility that once the fuse reaches the bomb - it will not go off IMMEDIATELY. There are only TWO states - the fuse state and the BOMB exploding state. No waiting is anticipated whatsoever.

In the next Anchor Point we find linkage between the summary of the resurrection given in 1Corinthians 15 and the language used at the heart of 2Corinthians 5 as it considers the experience of death for the believer.

KEY Phrase: "SWALLOWED up by Life" LINKED with 1Corinthians 15.

1Corinthians 15 had already been sent to the church at Corinth in the previous letter so they understood the context of this key phrase "Swallowed Up" as it relates to death, the decaying, perishable mortal body and the anticipated acceptance of a heavenly, imperishable, eternal body. Seeing this key phrase used again in this second letter, brings in the context of it's previous use.

Key Link:"unclothed and clothed" with "swallowed up by life"

By linking the previously defined resurrection language "Swallowed up" with the 3 Key phrases that describe the 3 states of the dead (Clothed in the earthly tent, unclothed, clothed in the eternal heavenly body) - Paul has established concrete linkage to the resurrection.

The next KEY anchor point LINKs the resurrection context of Ephesians 1 with 2Corinthians 5.

KEY Phrase: The "Spirit given as a pledge"

2Cor5:5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Paul will expand on this theme again - in a letter to the Ephesians. There he makes it clear (as most Christians agree) that the CONTEXT is the coming of Christ.

As Paul mentions the "redemption of the body" in Romans 8, so the term "redemption of God's own possession" in Ephesians 1 is taken as the same event.

And so by using the key anchor phrase "Holy Spirit given as a pledge" in 2Corinthians 5 - Paul again brings us to the subject of the resurrection in his latter letter to the Ephesians. In that latter work he went on to explain/expand the meaning of the Spirit "given as a pledge" - explaining that it is in reference to our future home in heaven given at Christ's return.

Key Theme: Encouragement taken from the anticipated resurrection.

This verse brings in the very interesting concept "at home in the body and absent from the Lord". This is not the very controversial form "to be Absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord" that many would prefer, but something like it occurs in verse 8. Let's look first at the "being of good courage" key phrase and then come back to the "at home in the body and absent from the Lord" when we get to verse 8.

As we have seen in chapter 4 of second Corinthians, the early church considered the return of Christ and the benefits to be gained (including the resurrection) to be of paramount importance as a focus that results in encouragement.

This emphasis on hope and encouragement gained by focusing on the resurrection and second coming, has been shown to be true throughout scripture and is given succinct emphasis by Peter in his letters.

We know from this that Peter's HOPE was fixed COMPLETELY on the grace to be brought to him at the resurrection at the revelation of Jesus Christ - as he faced the laying aside of his earthly dwelling and "departing".

The resurrection associate with Christ's coming back for His saints has been shown to be the source of encouragement and endurance in the battles of this world in the first letter to the Corinthians and in the second letter.

 

Ok - that was a long post... Sometimes you just have to go through the verses - verse-by-verse to see all the detail - all the beauty in the chapter.

(And obviously even highlighting that much detail in the chapter - it does not come close to discussing ALL the detail)

In Christ,

Bob

 

2 Cor 5:8-9 AND Philipians 1

Now we turn to the next Key phrase used in 2Corinthians 5 as a marker for the resurrection. The concept that we walk by faith now and not by sight - but someday we will walk by sight.

Key Concept: "by Faith" and "by Sight"

We will see how - consistently - Paul uses this concept to represent the conrast between our time on EARTH now and the RETURN of Christ.

 

2 Corinthians 5
The Temporal and Eternal (part 1 of 2)

In 2 Cor 5 Paul describes THREE states for mankind.

#1. Clothed in this earthly decaying "tent".
#2. Unclothed – naked without a tent/dwelling (in death)
#3. Clothed with our eternal house - eternal body made in heaven for us.

Paul argues that our desire is NOT to be in the unclothed stated NOR even to continue in this earthly decaying tent state - but rather the heavenly body - the heavenly house. Comparing this body to the next as one compares a tent to a house.

His argument in 2Cor 5 is NOT "To be absent from this body IS TO BE present with the Lord" rather he states this as a desire to NOT ONLY be absent from this body but ALSO to reach that 3rd state "at home with the Lord" so he says "I prefer to be absent from this body AND TO BE present with the Lord".

 

2 Cor 5 and “judgment”

#1. Key Point: All Judged

#2. Key Point: Judgment based on "deeds in the body" BOTH good and evil.

#3. Key Point: Future judgment

I add this only because it is a very good link between our HOPE in the resurrection and our awareness that we face a judgment of deeds that is very much tied to whether our resurrection will be the one of the righteous (the FIRST resurrection in Revelation 20) or the one of the wicked (the SECOND resurrection).

This future judgment where ALL are recompensed for deeds done – BOTH good and bad is also the subject of Romans 2 as we can clearly see “from the text” – (note the bold highlight “in the text”)

Future judgment "on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" as Paul says --

 

The Bible comes together reinforcing doctrine after doctrine building a wonderfully detailed picture that snippet-texting of just one verse here and there can never equal.

Better to take the complete Bible picture in each case!

 

it seems... for those who believe that they "fall asleep" when they die (literally fall asleep) dont go to either heaven or hell (depends on the judgment) right away... which sounds to me alot like what catholics call "purgatory"... just, the christian version of it...

you pickin up what im puttin down here?
i agree with jarthur... look at the greek.

"for it is appointed a man once to die, and then the judgment" not "it is appointed a man once to die, sleep little, then the judgment"

you still pickin up what im puttin down here?

 

gekko:

Before any can enter the mansions of the blessed, their cases must be investigated, and their characters and their deeds must pass in review before God. All are to be judged according to the things written in the books and to be rewarded as their works have been. This judgment does not take place at death. Mark the words of Paul: "He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead." Acts 17:31. Here the apostle plainly stated that a specified time, then future, had been fixed upon for the judgment of the world.

Jude refers to the same period: "The angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." And, again, he quotes the words of Enoch: "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment upon all." Jude 6, 14, 15. John declares that he "saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: . . . and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books." Revelation 20:12.
But if the dead are already enjoying the bliss of heaven or writhing in the flames of hell, what need of a future judgment? The teachings of God's word on these important points are neither obscure nor contradictory; they may be understood by common minds. But what candid mind can see either wisdom or justice in the current theory? Will the righteous, after the investigation of their cases at the judgment, receive the commendation, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant: . . . enter thou into the joy of thy Lord," when they have been dwelling in His presence, perhaps for long ages? Are the wicked summoned from the place of torment to receive sentence from the Judge of all the earth: "Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire"? Matthew 25:21, 41

 

music4Him

The Thief on the Cross
In answering the petition of the thief on the cross, what promise did the Saviour make him?
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:43.
What noted tree is in Paradise?
"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." Rev. 2:7.
By what river is the tree of life?
"And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river was there the tree of life." Rev. 22:1, 2.
NOTE. - It will be seen that the tree of life is not only in Paradise, but is on either side of the river which proceeds out from the throne of God. This shows that the tree of life and the throne of God are both in the same place. and that Paradise is therefore the dwelling place of God.
How long after Christ's crucifixion, did His resurrection take place?
"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day." 1 Cor.15:3, 4.
What did He say to Mary on the day of His resurrection?
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father." John 20:17.
NOTE. - This was the third day after the promise to the thief, and yet Christ could say He had not been to Paradise since His crucifixion. As no one can for a moment question the truthfulness of the Saviour on either of these occasions, we must look for harmony between His statement, though it may be at the sacrifice of previously cherished opinions.
What was really the thief's request?
"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into Thy kingdom." Luke 23:42.
When had Christ said that He would take His followers to Himself?
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." John 14:3.
When and how will all the righteous, both living and dead, be with Christ?
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:16, 17.
NOTE. - It is manifest from these scriptures that the time for taking the righteous to dwell with Christ is at His second coming, and not before. Then the penitent thief, doubtless, will be remembered by the Lord, and given a place in His kingdom.
Why did Christ use the word "today" in His answer to the thief?
Simply to give emphasis to His promise, as that was the usual way of doing so. See Zech. 9:12. Christ had been proclaiming that He would have a kingdom (Luke 19:12-15), and when He was taken by the Jews to be crucified, and was actually in the throes of death, His claim was ridiculed (Matt. 27:29, 42), and even His disciples forsook Him. The thief, notwithstanding all this, believed the Saviour's words, and made his dying request to be admitted into that kingdom when it should come. To make His promise emphatic, the Saviour said: "Verily I say unto thee today." A simple change of the comma from before "today," placing it immediately after that word, solves the whole difficulty that may exist in any candid mind, and harmonizes all the scriptures on this point; and this is allowable, since Inspiration has nothing to do with the punctuation of the Scriptures. That is of human origin and modern invention, and should never establish the meaning of any scripture, contrary to its harmony with other passages.

 

There she goes, interpreting the Bible through the lens of Ellen G. White.

 

Hey Everybody!

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice , And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation .” (John 5: 28, 29). The righteous dead will rise at the second coming of Christ and together with the living saints will meet the Lord in the air (see I Thess. 4: 15- 18), but the wicked dead will not rise until one thousand years after the resurrection of the righteous. “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20: 5). How can someone “live again” except he has first experienced having died?


To further establish the point, let us look at a few more Scriptures that prove that man is mortal. In the Book of Job, we read: “Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost [breatheth out; Strong’s Concordance], and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more [the heavens roll back at Christ’s second coming (Rev. 6: 14)], they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” (Job 14: 10- 12). And if that weren’t clear enough, Job continues: “If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come . Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee.” (Job 14: 14, 15). Obviously, Job believed that he would sleep in the grave until Jesus called him out on Resurrection Morning. (See also Job 17: 13- 16). After all, it was Jesus who spoke of death as a sleep when referring to Lazarus’s state. He never once implied that Lazarus had gone to heaven, but, on the contrary, said, “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep.” (John 11: 11). Then in John 11: 23, Jesus tells Martha, “Thy brother shall rise again,” and Martha responds, “I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus, in calling Lazarus from the tomb, said, “Lazarus, come forth (John 11: 43),” not “Lazarus, come up!” or “Lazarus, come down!” I believe that Jesus’ use of the word sleep is a very appropriate synonym when used in place of the word death (the first death), because the word implies a temporary state— a state from which every soul “shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt [the second death (see Rev. 20: 12- 14)].” (Daniel 12: 2).


The great teacher, the apostle Paul, clearly understood that he, too, would sleep in the grave until the second coming of Christ: “For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure [death] is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day : and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His [Christ’s] appearing.” (II Tim. 4: 6- 8). Paul knew, as did Martha, that not until the resurrection of the last day, at the second coming of Christ, would he receive the reward of eternal life and be changed from mortality to immortality. Remember, it was Paul who told us in the Sacred Word that mortal man will not put on immortality until the last trumpet blast that calls forth the righteous dead at the coming of Jesus: “Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [for some will be living when Christ comes], but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [the Virgin Mary also], and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality [Please notice when this happens— not at death, but at the second coming of Christ].” (I Cor. 15: 51- 53). Earlier in the chapter, Paul stated: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Christ] came also the resurrection of the dead . For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive . But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming .” (I Cor. 15: 20- 23).

 

No its exactly opposite, Roman Catholicism says man has natural immortality of the soul. Thats why they think they can pray to dead saints and the Virgin Mary.

Protestants didnt teach that...


The theory of the immortality of the soul was one of those false doctrines that Rome, borrowing from paganism, incorporated into the religion of Christendom. Martin Luther classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255. Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, the Reformer says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.

 

I would hope that you could come up with something better than that... like Bible verses to support your position, for instance.


Claudia

 

If there were no other Bible verse, just this one alone ought to show anyone who is willing to read that my position is the correct one:

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice , And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation .” (John 5: 28, 29).

 

"Soul sleep" means that when a person dies, he or she has no conscious existence from that time on until the day of resurrection.

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

When God spoke to Moses, Jesus said to him that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In other words, when God spoke to Moses at the burning bush, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had already lived and died. Yet Jesus said God was their God even now, the God of the living in the present, meaning, though these thee had died physically, their spirits were not dead. Nor did he mention their spirits were asleep. In other words, their spirits were alive, God was their God, even while their bodies laid in the ground.

The bodies of these three were dead and buried at the time Jesus spoke of them. He spoke of them spiritually, though, as being alive. He mentioned God as the God of the living, not the God of those asleep whether in or out of their bodies, as some propose, that after death men's spirits slept in their bodies until the resurrection and were basically unconscious. No, He said that God meant He was "the God of the living" when He spoke to Moses and when Jesus spoke to the men of His time, "living," meaning:

LIVING 2198 zao, dzah'-o; a prim. verb; to live (lit. or fig.):-life (time) (a-) live (-ly), quick.

James described the death of a person in this way:

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In other words, when a person dies, his body dies and the spirit leaves the body:

WITHOUT 5565. choris, kho-rece'; adv. from G5561; at a space, i.e., separately or apart from (often as prep.):-beside, by itself, without.

In Genesis 35, we read this about the soul departing from Rachel when she died, making soul sleep an impossibility: 18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benomi: but his father called him Benjamin. 19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem (parenthesis in the original).

That the spirit goes to be with the Lord is stated by Paul in Philippians 1: Philippians 1:21-26 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

Paul had two choices, either (1) stay in the flesh and continue to live on this earth serving God's people, or (2) depart and be with Christ.

Where is Christ? Is He in the ground in some type of soul sleep? No, He is in heaven until He returns and the believer joins Him there when each departs at death, that is, when their spirit leaves the body at death as James described. Paul again repeated himself in II Corinthians:

II Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Simply stated, while he is in the body, he is absent from the Lord's heavenly presence. When he will be absent from the body, he will no longer be "absent from the Lord." There is no mention of a state of soul sleep.

One of the most important scriptures refuting soul sleep is found in Ephesians and it concerns Christ and His resurrection:

Ephesians 4:7-10 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, when he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, (Now that he ascended, what is it but he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things).

Jesus lead captivity captive when He descended into the lower parts of the earth. In other words, He descended and then ascended from there taking with Him a host of captives (those who waited for His coming). That they were there waiting to be led out shows the non-existence of soul sleep:

LED CAPTIVITY 161. aichmalosia, aheekh-mal-o-see'-ah; from G164; captivity:-captivity.

LED CAPTIVITY 164. aichmalotos, aheekh-mal-o-tos'; from aichme (a spear) and a der. of the same as G259; prop. a prisoner of war, i.e. (gen.) a captive:- captive.

At death, the spirits of men of faith were held captive at death in Hades and released from there when Jesus descended there after His death (see I Peter 3:19 and I Peter 4:6). Jesus preached to the spirits held captive, whether they be the spirits of those in Noah's day or not. He didn't preach to a sleeping crowd.

Finally, Revelation clearly indicates that the souls of the martyrs and the saints are in heaven before the resurrection on the last day, again refuting the idea of soul sleep:

Revelation 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, does thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their bethren, that they should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

One can tell by the text that the martyrs are awake and this took place before the resurrection of the dead.

 

Are you saying that this is what Christ meant when He said "Lazarus sleeps I go to awaken HIM" in John 11??

Are saying that this is what Paul meant when he speaks in 1Thess 4 of the "Dead in Christ" as having "fallen asleep"??

In Christ,

Bob