Featured Romans 11 Continuation

Yours, mine, our,...

Van builds his whole thinking upon these personal possessives as if that explains from WHERE faith originated.

He then conjures up the scheme that THIS faith is part of every human nature in which anyone has the freedom of the will to express. That if the person is serious enough, and earnest enough, then they may get the attention of God and then God will look upon the faith to see if it meets some nebulous standard to be credited as righteousness.

This thinking violates multiple passages and to the list already published on this thread I would add another:
Galatians 3 is a wonderful chapter on conversion. In that discussion, Paul writes:

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.​

It is CHRIST who brought faith, not some human conjuring.

Christ said, "All that the Father gives me WILL come to me."

That is because Christ IS faith. He is the "AUTHOR and the PERFECTER of FAITH."

Previously, in this same passage, Paul points out this principle:

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.​

Paul in the final days prior to his murder wrote to Timothy. He expresses that the faith Timothy was that SAME faith (not in type or kind but in actual substance) of his mother and grandmother. Now if it were something in which anyone and everyone born could by nature and self will express, then Paul was most certainly wrong by pointing out the peculiarity of the faith as UNIQUE to Timothy, his mother, and grandmother in comparison to unbelievers.

Look at this passage from what Paul wrote:

5I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well. 6For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, 7for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.​

Folks do not pay attention to one who is so much in error as to puff up human attributes and consider them capable of attaining the righteousness of God, or even getting God's attention.

Though often and continually corrected with SCRIPTURES he obstinately refuses correction, repentance and recanting.

Rather, he will deflect with a great amount of declarative statements concerning a passage of Scriptures in hope that the foundational error will be covered up.

But error is error. And no matter the length or the amount of writing, even that writing in which may be correct concerning some points, cannot be held as Scripturally presented until the whole is without error.

It isn't a matter of personal opinion. It is a matter of taking the basic presentation of Scriptures concerning the foundation and from whence faith came.

All who do not teach that faith COMES from God are not Biblically sound.

 

You say people manufacturer their own faith, which is then the cause agent that effects God to choose them.
You twist the Bible around backwards to make man the meritorious reason why God chooses them.
You preach a legalistic, works based salvation.

Your claim regarding 2 Thessalonians is simply...false. Nowhere is faith stated as coming before God chooses. You have twisted the text to try force it to say what it does not say.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruitsto be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Well stated, agedman. Bravo.

 

Then you now will admit faith is a gift from God specifically measured for purpose to those of God’s choosing. That humankind freedom of will and expression has not capability concerning the acquiring but remains as responding to the work of God?

 

This is denial of scripture ever read this verse below
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So who's faith is it that justifies? Is it our faith that saves or Christ faith? We believe that we might be saved. It does not say we believe to get saved. Oh! thats right your a Calvinist who believes he is saved just out of the blue
MB

 

How about those who call on His name?
Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
MB

 

So...anyone who prays the sinners prayer or just calls out "Jesus" is automatically saved?
Man does it by calling out.
See how reading the Bible in isolation breeds false teaching? I suggest you study all of scripture to see the whole picture rather than create stick figures from a few phrases.

 

Then am I to assume you still cling to the false teaching that sin filled human faith can get Gods attention and, if it is determined by God to be earnest enough, God might then credit that free will expression for salvation?

Btw, this IS about Romans.

 

Stating God is omniscient and then presenting some “conditional election” is a denial of omniscience. But you don’t recognize that as confusion.


Van I am reporting statements YOU posted in other threads.


Don’t be blaming me for your own thinking.

 

IMHO Abraham believed God because God had called him out of unbelief unto belief and the faith of Abraham wasn't,that, he believed but, what, he believed. In thy seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. The seed of Abraham was the faith of Abraham. Now after God had revealed, the faith, in thy seed, to Abraham and God told Abraham to sacrifice Issac, Abraham deducted there must be a resurrection from the dead relative to, the faith to come.

Faith in the 11th chapter of Hebrews is always in the dative and if I understand correctly would mean;
To faith
Unto faith
Toward faith

These all did the things they did, being called of God, for purpose.

The coming of, the faith, of God. The learned obedience of the Son of God unto death, even the death of the cross.
See
Hebrews 5:7,8 who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,
Phil 2:8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
*Heb 12:2-4 looking to the,of the faith, author and perfecter-- Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him -- did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down; for consider again him who endured such gainsaying from the sinners to himself, that ye may not be wearied in your souls -- being faint. Not yet unto blood did ye resist -- with the sin striving; * I modified YLT up to -- Jesus

who Compare to

And he was withdrawn from them, as it were a stone's cast, and having fallen on the knees he was praying, saying, 'Father, if Thou be counselling to make this cup pass from me --; but, not my will, but Thine be done.' -- And there appeared to him a messenger from heaven strengthening him; and having been in agony, he was more earnestly praying, and his sweat became, as it were, great drops of blood falling upon the ground. Luke 22:42-44

That is when Faith was authored and was perfected when God the Father raised the Son of God from the dead.

and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins; 1 Cor 15:17

The Faith of Abraham, the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Abraham's resurrected seed.

Titus 1:1,2 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

That promise was for the Son of God, the seed of Abraham.

 

If there is anything to be Saved from, I would like to see it.

 

Individual choose to be 'elected', is the dead opposite of;

2 Thessalonians 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

Who? God.
When? ETERNITY PAST.
What? Chose.

"because God hath from the beginning chosen"

Who? those Saved. What? From sin.

" you to salvation"

How? Implanting The Divine Nature,
in The New Birth, FROM ABOVE:

"through sanctification of the Spirit"

When? In Time:

"through... belief of the truth:"

UNDER THE PREACHING OF THE LAW AND THE GOSPEL.

 

Read the verse you are arguing from sometime, if God Allows you to.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Roman's 4:5