Salvation by Grace Through Faith ALONE!

I do teach salvation by grace through faith, but you refuse to understand. Congratulations, you have just described a dead faith (James 2). Use your definition of faith and explain to me how the walls of Jericho fell by faith, I DARE YOU!

I have no doubt there is a difference between the spirit and the soul. That is not the question. My question is to show from the scriptures how one can be saved while the other is lost.

It is clear that He is speaking of the soul. Why is it clear? Becuase man doing something is involved. Salvation by grace through faith is outside of man doing anything other than believing.</font>[/QUOTE]Jesus linked the believing and the baptism to the salvation. Therefore if this is salvation of the soul, then that means the spirit is saved before believing, since they are linked, but by your logic, that is impossible because believing saves the spirit. Since the soul can't be saved with the spirit being lost, the spirit and the soul are saved at the same time, at baptism. That is the ONLY possible conclusion of this text.

To which are the sins attributable, to the soul, to the spirit, or both?

Therefore repentance is unnecssary for the saving of the spirit. Confession is unnecessary for the saving of the spirit. Baptism is unnecessary for the salvation of the spirit. Is that what you really believe?

Baptism is a work of God, not a work of man. Col 2:12, "having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." This is the only time any "work" is ever attributed to baptism.

This is certainly a unique, although unbiblical, approach.

Faith does not mean "belief only with no action".

That definition fails miserably when compared to God's definition and examples of faith in Heb 11.

Let me ask you a question to get a better understanding of what you think the difference between a soul and a spirit.

James 5:19-20, "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."

This is obviously not talking about physical death, because all men die, even the righteous are not spared physical death. So what kind of death is avoided? I would guess that you think that since at one time he was a "brother" and walking in the truth, his spirit was saved. Therefore if he is not returned, what happens to him with a saved spirit and a "dead" soul.

 

Oh man can I get a double dog dare . . . give me a break . . . I dare you . . . wow . . . now back to reality. I have not described a dead faith. I have described faith as it relates to the salvation of the spirit (Ephesians 2:8-9 - NO WORKS). It's not by works. There is nothing that you can do to get salvation. There is nothing that you can do to keep salvation and there is nothing you can do to prove salvation. It's really amazing how simple the message of salvation is, but yet people try so very hard to complicate matters.

mman the walls of Jericho falling have nothing to do with salvation by grace through faith. Absolutely nothing! If you want to see the picture of salvation by grace through faith in Israel then you have to go back to Exodus 12. That's where salvation by grace through faith comes into play, and only there.

1 Peter 1:9: Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.

James 1:21: Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

The spirt and the soul are not saved at the same time as I pointed out to you in Hebrews 4:12 and Genesis 1:3. The spirit is now in the light once a spiritually dead man has placed his faith in Jesus' substitutionary death. At that point the soul and the spirit are separated. The soul and the flesh are at enmity with the spirit, because the spirit is in the light and the other two are still in darkness. That is why there is such a battle to walk by the Spirit or to walk in the flesh.

One must believe in Jesus'substitutionary death. But after one is made alive spiritually then they must believe in Jesus as the Christ (King/Master). They must be baptized as an act of obedience, which is the key to the salvation of the soul.

Faith is not left on the wayside when it comes to the salvation of the soul, but rather works eminate out of faithful living, which saves the soul.

So there is zero contradiction in Jesus using beliving and baptism in the same sentence, because the original audience was alive spiritually and were not entertaining the message of salvation by grace through faith, which most of Christendom believes they were entertaining.

That's what the Bible clearly teaches, so that's what I believe. Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly explain this. Acts 16:30-31 clearly explain this.

The message of salvation by grace through faith is so simple even a child can understand it. Unfortunately parts of the church have so cluttered the message that it becomes very difficult to keep things in order as to what one must do.

The Bible tells us clearly that one must believe in Jesus Christ. That's it.

It seems to be that teh powerful working of God is being raised with Him through faith. The powerful working of God was in the resurrection, not in baptism.

I think what has been shown proves otherwise, but it's not my job to convince you of anything.

It does if you are talking about salvation by grace through faith, because the Bible clearly says that it is not of works lest any man should boast. No works.

Once again Hebrews is talking about the salvation of the soul not salavtion by grace through faith. And the faith that is spoken of in Hebrews 11 is not a saving of the spirit faith. That happened before those folks were able to "act" in faith.

He loses his soul in the coming 1,000-year reign of Christ. This is clearly stated in three of the four gospel accounts. If you lose your life (same word for soul) now then you will find it in the coming age (the next age to come is not eternity as most think, but it's actually the 1,000-year reign of Christ), but if you keep/find your life (soul) now you will lose it in the coming age.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The result of being a New Creation... Is change.

The results **AFTER** becoming a New Creation is/are good works and a changed lifestyle...

You can _NOT_ do good works to become a New Creation... That can only be done by the Spirit through the Blood of the Lamb...

You can _NOT_ Change your lifestyle that is a "want to" change brought about by the wooing of the Spirit.

Phillipians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Even though we have the strength to do *all* things if we do not allow the Holy Spirit to change our want tos... No change will occur...

Here's is a question...

If there is no lifestyle change... Can we truly say that the person is a New Creation in Christ?

Metamorphosis is a word that describes this change...

And, just like a Butterfly can not survive on eating leaves...

A New Creation in Christ can not live in his old environment either...

The metamorphosis **requires** change or death results...

Mike Sr.

 

Mike the new creature or creation that Scripture speaks of is one becoming a new creation in Christ meaning neither Jew nor Gentile.

A person can not be a gentile, because all physical and spiritual blessings have to flow from the seed of Abraham. The Bible says the Gentile has no God.

A Christian can no longer be a Jew because the kingdom that was offered to Israel during the time of John the Baptist, Christ, the disciples, etc. was taken away from this people. So in order for a Jew to take part in this kingdom he can longer be a Jew.

And that's what happens when one accepts Christ. They become a new man in Christ, neither Jew nor Gentile so that the spiritual blessings that were promised to flow through Abraham's seed will still in fact do that just as promised.

The new creation/creature has nothing to do with lifestyle. It has to do with identity.

Ephesians 2 tells us that we should do good works, but it is not a guarantee unfortunately.

 

By the way I also wanted to add that change is required or death results. The Bible is very clear about that. You can lose your life now and find it in the coming age, or you can save your life now and lose it then.

We are absolutely required to be found faithful and obedient no doubt. Again some unfortunately will be found to the contrary. That is why Paul tells us that it is absolutely critical that we keep our eye on the prize and diligently run the race of faith.

The Bible tells us that someone that puts his hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the kingdom. Peter found out rather quickly what that was like when he took his eyes off Christ while walking on the water.

 

So, even though we are a completely New Creation we can still eat our old diet?

 

Your sin nature is not done away with. Light is separated from the darkness, but the darkness still exists. They co-exhist, but we are to crucify ourselves daily and allow the Spirit to work in our lives.

The flesh and the Spirit war with each other. Unfortunately there are those that allow their flesh to win instead of dying to self and walking in the Spirit.

Now all of us from time to time allow the flesh to win the battle, but the Bible teaches that there are those that allow the flesh to win all the time despite being saved by grace through faith.

 

But, should we make no effort a selecting a proper diet?

True enough that if I am on a diet I may occaisionally eat a too large piece of chocolate cake...

But, if I am on a diet my goal is to eat the foods that are good for me...

In spite of the cravings of my natural appetites...

 

Absolutely. Please don't understand that I am excusing a lack of faith or lack of works. It is inexcusable in my life or any other Christian's life. But reality is that some don't live a faithful life.

That's why proper discipleship is so important. It is absolutely crucial!

 

What do you mean when you say "You can lose your life now and find it in the coming age, or you can save your life now and lose it then."

Find it in the coming age?

Claudia

 

Claudia most people are under the understanding that after this life (age) eternity begins as the next age. There is actually an age inbetween the age that we are living in now and the eternal ages. That age is the 1,000-year reign of Christ. That is the coming age.

But because of the misunderstanding people have related almost all of the "savlation" messages to eternal salvation, when in actuality most of the "salvation" messages dealt with in the NT are actually salvation messages for the coming age or the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

Salvation by grace through faith is such an easy message to understand and once it's done it's done, so there is really very little need to expound on it in great detail.

When one is saved by grace through faith their spirit is made alive by the Holy Spirit. That act is irreversable, hence the security of the believer.

But once a person is made alive spiritually they are then in a position to entertain the same message that was given to Israel. And that message is whether or not a Christian wants to take part in the coming kingdom of Christ.

Broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life. That's not a salvation by grace through faith message, but a kingdom message. And so there will be far more Christians that don't experience life in the coming kingdom than ones that do.

No one is guaranteed a position. We have to be found obedient and faithful to become a part of the bride of Christ.

Hope that helps.

 

And, J-Jump, what sect are you a part of?

Your doctrine doesn't sound like anything I've heard in any Baptist church I've ever visited or any Pentecostal Church I've been a part of...

I am suspicious of you... Please tell us your church denominational affiliation..

 

Sect? Well I guess if you refer to Christianity as a sect then . . . As far as churches I grew up and have always attended a Southern Baptist church.

The reason you haven't heard teaching like this before is that the church has lost the full meaning of the Gospel message.

Ever since the church began Satan has been attacking the true meaning of the coming kingdom of Christ. The reason being is that message impacts him directly, because Satan will be removed by Christ at some point as ruler over this earth. He tried for several thousands years to keep Christ from showing up on earth. He tried to tempt Christ into sinning so that He would disqualify Himself as Adam and Eve did, but He was victorious to the praise of God!! He now sits at the right hand of the Father and Satan has no way of getting to Him now.

However, Satan can still disqualify humans from participating in that kingdom. And that's why you have a distortion of the full good news.

This is the one message that will unite both fundamentals and liberals just like it did when Christ was on earth. The liberal Saducees and the conservative/fundamental Pharisees and Scribes all despised the message of the kingdom. And so it is today. It is despised because it is not understood, but instead of trying to understand it people say that it is so foreign to what they have ever been taught they say from the get go that it can't be right instead of studying the matter out.

Despite this sounding so off the wall (trust me it certainly did to me when I first came across this teaching) I would encourage you to study the matter out for yourself. If you are interested email me and I can direct you to some resource material. And then you can make an informed decision. Most people make an irrational, on-the-spot decision instead of studying to make an informed decision.

By the way I'm glad you are suspicious of me. You should test ALL the spirits. The ones that profess things you've heard all your life as well as the ones that say something different.

 

There was a day not too long ago when you could find Kingdom teaching in about half the Baptist churches. Then, they started shying away from it for various reasons, some of which have been discussed on this board.

Today, there are very few, and those that do, while seeking the truth, have a weak understanding. "Well, since this passage cannot be talking about salvation, then it must be talking about the Kingdom."

There are two churches that I will be guest preaching at this Summer that chose to change their name from "Baptist" to "Bible" church for the simple fact that Baptists, by and large, have abandoned this truth.