BORN AGAIN -What does it mean?

Claudia_T · Apr 28, 2006

I was talking to my neighbor a little while ago and she said she didnt like "Born Again" Christians, when we were talking about the different Churches here in town.

I asked what she meant by that and she said people who had a wicked lifestyle and then became Christians and claim they were "born again" yet still act the same way as they did before in their former lifestyle.

I have heard someone talk about this before but I never really knew that was the usual definition of a born again Christian. And so I would like to know what everybody thinks a true "Born Again" Christian is and tell me why you think that way.

Here is one Bible verse that strikes me as I read it:

1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

I cant see how a true Biblical Born Again Christian could live their former wicked lifestyle, according to this Bible verse, can you?

...unless you have a different definition of what it means to "doeth righteousness"

also it must be of utmost importance for a person to be "born again" in light of what Jesus says here:

Jn:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Claudia

James_Newman · Apr 28, 2006

The problem with applying those passages in 1john to unbelievers is that we are not saved by our righteousness.

standingfirminChrist · Apr 28, 2006

A problem I see, is this...

In Romans 7 Paul stated that the evil that he would not do, he found himself doing.

In 1 Timothy 1 Paul refers to himself as being the chief of sinners. Not that he was, but that he is... present tense.

In 1 John, we read that John wrote that we would not sin, but if we did sin, we know we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.

The child of God will sin from time to time. We are not automatically perfect and sinless once we accept His Son.

The flesh is weak, and as long as we are in these mortal bodies, we will have to deal with sin.

BobRyan · Apr 28, 2006

God's Word has already addressed this problem

Matt 7
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Gal 2:
17 ""But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!
18 ""For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
19 ""For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
20 ""I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

1John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, "" I have come to know Him,'' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

James_Newman · Apr 28, 2006

Kinda makes you wonder why Jesus tells us that we will be judged for our works if we can no longer sin.

JackRUS · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Kinda makes you wonder why Jesus tells us that we will be judged for our works if we can no longer sin.

I would love to see that verse.

James_Newman · Apr 29, 2006

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

JackRUS · Apr 29, 2006

Those verses all pertain to the already saved person.

steaver · Apr 29, 2006

BORN AGAIN -What does it mean?

I believe what you are looking for are the attributes of one who has truly been born again.

The event itself is an act of God alone who creates a new creature in Christ via the Holy Ghost.

Here is one Bible verse that strikes me as I read it:

1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

I cant see how a true Biblical Born Again Christian could live their former wicked lifestyle, according to this Bible verse, can you?

...unless you have a different definition of what it means to "doeth righteousness"

I agree with you in the sense that righteousness will prevail in a born again Christians life, however this never means perfection and backsliding is a fact of life even for the saved.

Doing what is right is loving thy neighbor as thyself. I know many "true" Christians who sin EVERY day but I can confirm as a witness that they do keep God's Holy commandment. Guess what? I am one of them!

God Bless!

James_Newman · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by JackRUS:
Those verses all pertain to the already saved person.

Amen, so if a saved person is going to be rewarded for their works, good or bad, it's kinda silly to say that a person with bad works isn't saved.

JackRUS · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by James_Newman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
Those verses all pertain to the already saved person.

Amen, so if a saved person is going to be rewarded for their works, good or bad, it's kinda silly to say that a person with bad works isn't saved. [/QUOTE]It's quite possible. 1 Cor. 3:13-15 says that they will still be saved but their works will be burned up. Only what is done for Christ will last.

Claudia_T · Apr 29, 2006

It seems to me like both what standingfirminChrist and what BobRyan said are right.

I dont think any of us here could truthfully say we are sinless, but on the other hand, the Bible seems to also say that we are either "good trees bearing good fruit" or "bad trees bearing bad fruit".

Could it be that the overall picture of us and what we do in a habitual way would be the indicator of whether or not we are really born again? Who do we talk about (Jesus), what do we think about (doing God's will, helping our neighbor); yet falling and failing quite a lot.

While the blatant sinner would care about self, and would be careless of everything.

To me that sounds like a good balanced idea of a born again person.

You would think though that if we are born of GOD, that we would be a little more perfect:

Jn:1:13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

But on the other hand I wonder if its just like being born, as in a newborn baby... and we grow by degrees.

And so of course we will still be sinful yet growing up into full stature. Thats how I see it so far, at least

I will have to read the other posts tomorrow.

Here's a verse: (I'm looking up "Born" on my desktop Bible)

Jn:3:8: The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I wonder if this whole process of being born again is an instantaneous thing or a long drawn out protracted thing?
Claudia

Claudia_T · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Kinda makes you wonder why Jesus tells us that we will be judged for our works if we can no longer sin.

Where did you get the idea that we can no longer sin?

Claudia

Claudia_T · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by steaver:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> BORN AGAIN -What does it mean?

I believe what you are looking for are the attributes of one who has truly been born again.

The event itself is an act of God alone who creates a new creature in Christ via the Holy Ghost.

Here is one Bible verse that strikes me as I read it:

1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

I cant see how a true Biblical Born Again Christian could live their former wicked lifestyle, according to this Bible verse, can you?

...unless you have a different definition of what it means to "doeth righteousness"

Click to expand...

I agree with you in the sense that righteousness will prevail in a born again Christians life, however this never means perfection and backsliding is a fact of life even for the saved.

Doing what is right is loving thy neighbor as thyself. I know many "true" Christians who sin EVERY day but I can confirm as a witness that they do keep God's Holy commandment. Guess what? I am one of them!

God Bless! [/QUOTE]Steve,

What exactly do you mean when you say that they "keep God's Holy Commandment"?

Claudia

Chemnitz · Apr 29, 2006

Claudia, justification, being born again, is instantaneous. Sanctification, becoming Christ-like, is a long and drawn out process that only ends when we are called home.

BobRyan · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. [/QB]

Ok so - that is the part where there is a future judgment based on works.

What about "we can no longer sin"?

1john 2:1?

In Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by James_Newman:

Originally posted by JackRUS:
Those verses all pertain to the already saved person.

Click to expand...

Amen, so if a saved person is going to be rewarded for their works, good or bad, it's kinda silly to say that a person with bad works isn't saved.

Click to expand...

ONLY if the Bible says "the REWARD for evil is MORE HEAVEN"!!

As contrasted to Matt 7 "NOT everyone who SAYS ... but he who DOES".

As contrasted to Romans 2 "to the one who DOES..."

Romans 2:11-13 "No partiality - ... for it is not the HEARERS that are justified but the DOERS will be JUSTIFIED".

The whole idea of "the Reward for EVIL doing is MORE HEAVEN" comes from the traditions-of-man not "Sola Scriptura".

In Christ,

Bob

Claudia_T · Apr 29, 2006

Originally posted by James_Newman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
Those verses all pertain to the already saved person.

Amen, so if a saved person is going to be rewarded for their works, good or bad, it's kinda silly to say that a person with bad works isn't saved. [/QUOTE]How can a person be "Rewarded for their bad works" when Jesus said this:

John 5:
28: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29: And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

steaver · Apr 29, 2006

Steve,

What exactly do you mean when you say that they "keep God's Holy Commandment"?

Claudia

They...fulfil the royal law...

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

You see, picking and choosing which "laws" you will follow and consider sin if you do not is going against God's Word.

If I fulfil the royal law, "thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself", then God says "ye do well".

So pork eating (even if you want to erroniously conclude is a sin) cannot nullify God's Word concerning His "royal law". Therefore by keeping God's royal law I have pleased my God and eating a dinner plate of pork is not going to nullify my salvation in Christ, nor any other unrepented of "sin" you may determine condemns a Christian to hell.

If one does not obey God's royal law then that person has never known God nor has ever been regenerated by God.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I have fulfilled ALL of the law! The law is spiritual. You need to understand the spiritual lessons given within the law. Get beyond the letter and allow Jesus to set your spirit free!

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Let me emphasize this for you. You can go on your way ignoring it and choosing to continue on teaching false things, or you can let the Word of God speak to your heart on the matter...

AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Put the dietary laws where God has placed them and let them rest! They were given for a purpose in time, not for the NT Christian!

God Bless!

Claudia_T · Apr 29, 2006

Steve,

"Briefly comprehended" means that love your neighbor and love God are a SUMMARY of the entire law, that doesnt mean you dont have to keep the law.

If you love your neighbor would you steal from them? would you kill them? Thou shalt not kill is a part of the 10 commandments. You cannot claim that you love God and your neighbor if you slowly kill your own self by not taking care of your body. Love your neighbor "as you love yourself" the Bible says.

...as far as your claim that we need to only keep the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law goes, thats not what Jesus said, He said till heaven and earth pass away, every letter of the law would be intact.

Mt:5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You cant continue on being at enmity against God's 10 commandment Law and claim you are being "spiritual". To be carnally minded is death.

Romans 8:
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

TEMPERANCE includes sensible dietary habits

2Pt:1:
6: And to knowledge (add) temperance ; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

8: For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9: But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Claudia

[ April 29, 2006, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]

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