Is 'Priest' biblical?

The problem here is that we are looking at all of these offices as the highly structured professional "titles" they became later in the Church.
As was pointed out", "elder" did denote an older person. As being older and wiser, they were often given or assumed positions of authority, and were thus "overseers". Of course, there could be some overseers who were not old; and some old brethren who were not overseers.

 

Eric,
I think you are pointing out another issue.
Yes, Prebyteroi have 2 meanings.
It was originated from the elderly persons and it might have been the customs of ancient times that the elders were selected among the old persons. Presbyteroi in NT have 2 meanings and one is the Elders as we mentioned as an Office, and the other is simply the elderly persons which is mentioned in 1 Tim 5:1.
For the first meaning of Office, even though someone is young, he can still become an Elder as we find no age limit in 1 Tim 3:1-7.

The current issue was whether Episkope is the same as Presbyteros or not. I am not making a propaganda, but so-called Plymouth Brethren, especially John Nelson Darby, have discerned this matter very accurately as we discern that:

1. There are only 2 Offices in NT churches, which are Elders and Deacons, and Elders are sometimes called Episkope ( Overseers or Bishop)
2. Episkope and Presbyteros are the same Office
3.Episkope (Overseers) is named when we consider its functions and responsibilities.
4. Elders are mentioned when we consider the status and position.

5. They appear in NT all the time as plural, except the case of definition, which rules out the Mono-Pastoral system, which means that every local church had several elders, not the single, mono-pastoral dictator system.

In some churches, nothing can be done without the consent of the specific person, one man, the pastor, and nothing cannot be done which the specific person, the one man, the pastor insist on, even though the justification for is hardly found.

This is why PB are "Brethren" and have no pastors as we read Ephesians 4:8-13 and find "Poimen" there which means Sheperd not the Pastor.

 

So what is the pastor, in your view? Just another name for an elder or overseer? ("Pastor" even in English" means "shepherd". It's related to "pasture".)

 

This not true, επισκοπον as it is in Titus 1:7 is singular. Just because it appears in the plural in other places does not mean every church has multiple and only multiple elders.

Pastors are not to be dictators, they are not to be leaders as the world discerns leaders. They are to be leaders of the same mold as Jesus, a servant.

Most of this argument against having one pastor seems to be a reaction against the abuses by a few people rather than a response to the actual theology and practice of office of the pastor.

The term pastor is based on the latin for shepherd.

 

Pastor is not an Office and that is why there is no mentioning about the qualification and appointment process.

Poimen mentioned in Ephesians 4:11 appears about 28 times in NT and about 8 times it was used for sheperding as a verb and the rest of it was used as Sheperd, a noun form.

Ephesians 4:11 mentions about the Apostle, Prophets, Evangelists, Teacher and Sheperd.
These are the GIFTS given by Christ thru Holy Spirit ( δωρεασ=Doreas=Gifts) : Eph 4:7-13.

Apostles were the disciples who have seen Jesus in person. Prophets can still exist even today as long as they are gifted and can prophesy.
Evangelists, Teachers are the talents given by the Christ.

1 Cor 12:28 and the general explanation in 1 Cor 12-14 explains about the Gifts or the Talents.
Someone may be a Healer, or an Eloquent preacher, or Miracle performer, but these are not the Offices, but the Gifts or Talents given by Christ.

That's why there are no mentioning about the qualification of Teacher, Healer, Miracle Performer, Evangelists etc.

As far as these are concerned, so-called Plymouth Brethren have discerned very well.

Please check the site:

http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/default.asp?scid=1

If anyone wants to defend Pastor, it can be explained as " Sheperding Elder" or "an Elder specialized in teaching and pastoring"

 

This not true, επισκοπον as it is in Titus 1:7 is singular. Just because it appears in the plural in other places does not mean every church has multiple and only multiple elders.

Pastors are not to be dictators, they are not to be leaders as the world discerns leaders. They are to be leaders of the same mold as Jesus, a servant.

Most of this argument against having one pastor seems to be a reaction against the abuses by a few people rather than a response to the actual theology and practice of office of the pastor.

The term pastor is based on the latin for shepherd. [/QB][/QUOTE]

As I asked you many times, please don't respond to my post so that we may avoid any more collision. This is the only wise solution between you and me.

What you have to do is to take these garbages into your mouth !


Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. . [/qb]
Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. You don't have the first clue about what is to be a Lutheran Pastor. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for spouting such filth

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. You don't have the first clue about what is to be a Lutheran Pastor. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for spouting such filth.

[ May 03, 2006, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]

 

This not true, επισκοπον as it is in Titus 1:7 is singular. Just because it appears in the plural in other places does not mean every church has multiple and only multiple elders.

Pastors are not to be dictators, they are not to be leaders as the world discerns leaders. They are to be leaders of the same mold as Jesus, a servant.

Most of this argument against having one pastor seems to be a reaction against the abuses by a few people rather than a response to the actual theology and practice of office of the pastor.

The term pastor is based on the latin for shepherd.

 

Chemnitz,

I asked you many times not to respond to me any more so that we may avoid any further unhappy arguments.


As I asked you many times, please don't respond to my post so that we may avoid any more collision. This is the only wise solution between you and me.

What you have to do is to take these garbages into your mouth !


Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. . [/qb]


Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. You don't have the first clue about what is to be a Lutheran Pastor. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for spouting such filth


I was willing to leave the whole incident in the pass despite the deceitful remarks made towards men such as myself and having my salvation question numerous times

 

Chemnitz,

I asked you many times not to respond to me any more so that we may avoid any further unhappy arguments.
As I asked you many times, please don't respond to my post so that we may avoid any more collision. This is the only wise solution between you and me.

What you have to do is to take these garbages into your mouth !


Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. . [/qb]
Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. You don't have the first clue about what is to be a Lutheran Pastor. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for spouting such filth

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
How dare you insinuate such garbage. You don't have the first clue about what is to be a Lutheran Pastor. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for spouting such filth.


I was willing to leave the whole incident in the pass despite the deceitful remarks made towards men such as myself and having my salvation question numerous times

 

Nope! You may be in the false religion!

 

One word of caution: Not all Canadians follow the thinking of Eliyahu. Some of us have experience with various Christian groups and appreciate the differences in church polity and practice, that Christ be praised throughout.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

 

One word of caution: Not all Canadians follow the thinking of Eliyahu. Some of us have experience with various Christian groups and appreciate the differences in church polity and practice, that Christ be praised throughout.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

 

Eliyahu, you can either run from your problems or you can face them and grow from the experience your choice.

I am trying to grow from my experiences with you.

I am not going to stop posting in response to you when you write something I disagree with. I will try to treat you with respect but I will expect the same in return. To be honest my hopes are not high, particularly after your most recent response to Nate on this particular thread.

It is quite sad that you yell at me about spew garbage when I watch you repeatedly treat others on this board with complete disrespect

 

Your Job is to take these Garbage back into your mouth which spout the garbages and filth !

Do you know any debating techniques outside of ad hominim?

Chemnitz,
Is this your debating technique ?

It is no wonder that Satan was able to trick you into doubting God's promises for you and thereby drive you to the brink of destruction said by Chemnitz.

You already lost the sense before you criticize me. Then I would render you the same as I don't have to invent a new insulting. I am learning from you the debating technique !

Satan was able to trick you into doubting God's promises for you and thereby drive you to the brink of destruction.

 

Do you think it is OK if I say to you those words as Chemnitz said to me?

If you like them, they will return to you ! Enjoy them!

Jim,
Satan was able to trick you into doubting God's promises for you and thereby drive you to the brink of destruction.


Originally posted by Chemnitz:
You ought to be ashamed of yourself for spouting such filth.


Jim,

How dare you insinuate such garbage. . ?

 

You can say anything you please. It doesn't trouble me a bit.

Cheers,

Jim

 

You can say anything you please. It doesn't trouble me a bit. If it gives you pleasure, go for it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

You can say anything you please. It doesn't trouble me a bit. If it gives you pleasure, go for it.

Cheers,

Jim