I Corinthians 1:7 shows that gifts continue

No offence J.Jump but I am really trying to find out the scriptures that have been mentioned to the 70 AD theroy of when tongues ceased.
I agree with a few others here that are saying that tongues are not just for a sign. As others have posted the scriptures and I have looked them up and read them in context where the bible says it.
BTW, I do appreciate you taking the time posting the links.

 

I honestly don't know where the 70 AD theory came from as I have not heard that one myself.

 

I know where it came from. It has to do with the destruction of the temple.

I just don't think it's correct.

The only thing certain is that the signs, wonders, and miracles performed through men have ceased. But, that which is "perfect" (mature), is debated as to what it is.

 

One problem I have is that, as a group, Penetcostals and Charismatics are lousy record keepers making it pretty much impossible to provide the kind of proof that some demand...

Some things have to be taken on Faith...

I, personally can only testify what I have seen and heard...

I've seen the genuine and I've seen frauds...

I have experienced the Miraculous...

But, how do you prove it to a skeptic?

You can't.

Because every piece of testimony or evidence will be called into question even medical x-rays and test results...

The fact is, is that we have two groups of people claiming 'perfect' exegesis of a few passages of Scripture. And, who are ready to rip one anothers throats out over it...

I, too, am tired of defending something which no matter how 'Saved' I am, continues to create such hatred for my position...

When people tell me that the Manifestations of the Holy Spirit have ceased it causes a certain amount of consternation for I have experienced that He is still around and still does some pretty neat things...

And, I really don't care whether a person is healed after calling for the elders and prayer or because an itinerant 'healer' comes through and lays hands on them...

That they are healed, and God did it is all that matters to me. Suffering has diminshed in the body of Christ...

Proverbs 25:11 says A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

And, I don't care whether a Preacher Preaches it, A Prophet Prophecies it, or it comes by Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues as long as it is a Word that Builds up the Body of Christ...

No matter what you say, I will continue to pray quietly to God in the Spirit, sometimes with my understanding and sometimes in Tongues...

And, in a compatible Venue, I will continue to sing with my Understanding and also sing in Tongues.

And, if, as has happened twice before, I am in a place of crisis and someone needs prayer and the Holy Spirit comes upon me and drives me to my knees in prayer for them in Tongues I will do so.

No matter what the venue.

Because I know, from experience, that when the Spirit Prays through me like that, the results are 'excellent'.

You can tell me all day it's wrong. But, I have just as many "experts" as you that say I am right...

They have Advanced Biblical Degrees, too...

But, I have more...

I have an experience which has been tested in the furnance of real life that has not and can not be shaken...

And, I also know that the very fact that I am here is a result of unilateral Divine Intervention in natural law...

And, as long as my heart continues to beat...

That's going to be real hard to take from me.

SMM

 

sing in tongues? If it is not a known language, then you must be singing to God. If there is an interpretation given of that singing, it must be done in the manner of an interpretation from man to God, not man to man.

If no interpretation is given of tongues, there is confusion. And we know that God is not the author of confusion.

Let everything be done decently and in order.

 

While I am sure there are plenty to fit this category among Christendom, I don't see anyone that is hating you or hatred in general for your position. There are some, including myself, that believe the Bible differently.

I certainly don't hate you and if you want to continue to believe the way you believe that is between you and the Lord, because you will not have to answer to me and vice versa.

I love you as a brother in Christ.

Just because the sign gifts are no longer being manifested doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit is gone, nor does it mean that God isn't doing amazing things amongst His people. Quite the opposite. The Holy Spirit is still around and God is still doing amazing things among His people. He just not doing them in the same way He did then.

I've told the story before about the young lady that was in our high school youth group that had brain cancer. She was all but written off by the doctors. I can't tell you how many hundreds of people were praying for her. There was a least one session if not more where people prayed over her.

At some point along the route God healed her. Absolutely amazing. She is still alive today. God healed her, but it wasn't becuase she went to a "healer."

Again signs pointed to something in the future for the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel is considered sick and even dead in some places in Scripture. So these signs pointed to their national healing and nation resurrection.

Those signs don't point to the same thing for the church, because our spirits have already been healed. To my knowledge nowhere does the Bible describe the church as sick, now Revelation says poor, naked, miserable, but not sick. I don't recall it ever saying that the church is dead.

So the signs have no meaning to the church.

 

The church should not be seeking after signs. An evil and adulterous nation seeketh after a sign.

 

Amen SFIC!

 

Also, I don't think that all manifestations are of evil origin, I just think they are outside the will of God. When the children of Israel were in the wilderness (which was part of the Promised Land, just not the Land Flowing with Milk and Honey), his will was for them to eat manna; heavenly food. They whined and complained that they wanted meat until he gave it to them and it made them sick!

Just like the children of Israel, I think that it's possible that if we demand something from God that's not part of his perfect plan, he just might give it to us!

Beware what you pray for... You just might get it!

 

Agreed!

But, Chaos can be a relative term as I pointed out in a post ~somewhere~...

I would be totally out of order in a Baptist Church to do so...

But, in my home church where The Order is different it is acceptable.

The analogy I used earlier is that of the Trading Floor of the New York Stock Exchange...

To the uninitiated it is total and complete chaos...

But, to the traders it's all perfectly in Order and Normal...

SMM

 

Agreed the Signs should follow believers instead of believers frenetically following signs!

SMM

 

Not that I believe at all in this modern manifestation of tongues... but I am just wondering, How does one know that their particular tongue speaking session is "of God" and not just a self-generated thing?

Whst do you have to go by, in order to tell?

 

Ah, Claudia, a very good question...

All I know is deep within there is a witness that I am 'active' in the Spirit instead of just a 'lurker'.

But, the real problem is knowing God's Word well enough to ward off deception...

I believe that when a person is 'Spirit Filled' they become Open to the Spirit Realm in ways most people are not aware of and potentially afraid of.

Therefore, I believe there are higher risks involved, specifically for those who fail to test the spirits to see if they are of God or not.

The other way I know is, because I continuusly check my Loyalties and Motives as harshly as possible.

Before I was Spirit-Filled I was attending an Independent Baptist Church and was extremely active in evangelism.

I took God's Word at face value and had an intimate fellowship with Him as I hitchhiked from place to place witnessing...

So, I learned His Voice quite well before I even got Spirit Filled...

Many Baptists also have as intimate or possibly more intimate fellowship with Christ and know His voice quite well, too. Without being Spirit-Filled.

SMM

 

Mike,

I had just intended on asking you that question and leaving it at that. But then after thinking about it for a while I realized, why am I asking Mike how to tell it his experience is from God when I know how to tell myself?

I am going to say something to you and I am hoping that somehow you will just ponder over what I say and consider that I could be right.

Mike, we can only go by what the Word of God tells us, we cant rely upon feelings, emotions, experiences, since there is a Devil out there would works to deceive us. There are demonic spirits out there too. I have done a whole lot of research on New Age Spiritualism and you seem to be following along the same trail as they are.


I cant help but to notice that you have a real negative reaction to the Law of God whenever it is mentioned. It is more pronounced than with anyone else here that I have conversed with. And you always act as if you were in fear that I were trying to make you have to keep the Law. I almost want to run for cover when you get that way.

Please just read this and take time to think about it. The Bible gives us a test whereby we can test the spirits to see if they are of God...

Isa:8:
19: And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.



The Ten Commandments were meant to serve as a 'mirror' that we could look into- to see where we fall short of God's perfect character, but New Ager's have substituted God's Law for 'Love'. This so-called 'Love' is based on whatever you may 'feel' is the right thing to do; there is no definite right or wrong.


'It is true that spiritualism is now changing its form and, veiling some of its more objectionable features, is assuming a Christian guise... but the bible is interpreted in a manner that is pleasing to the unrenewed heart, while its solemn and vital truths are made of no effect. Love is dwelt upon as the chief attribute of god, but it is degraded to a weak sentimentalism, making little distinction between good and evil. God's justice, his denunciations of sin, the requirements of his holy law, all are kept out of sight.' -Great Controversy, page 558, Ellen White

'The teaching of the demon-gods in ancient times fostered the vilest license. The divine precepts condemning sin and enforcing righteousness were set aside; truth was lightly regarded and impurity was not only permitted, but also enjoined. Spiritualism declares that there is no death, no sin, no judgments, no retribution; that men are unfallen demigods; that desire is the highest law; and that man is accountable only to himself... does not such teaching suggest an origin similar to that of demon worship?' -Ellen White, Signs of the Times, June 30, 1890

1Timothy 4:1: 'Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils' Spiritualist teachers set aside the Law of God. They teach that the sinful, erring nature of man is the only standard of character, and that 'They affect great pity for minds so narrow, weak, and superstitious as to acknowledge the claims of God and obey the requirements of His law.' -Great Controversy pg. 560 And now, let's see what top New Age Personality, David Spangler has to say about the Law of God:

'The evolution of the race is for man to learn not how to obey the law but how to be the law. There is a vast, vast difference. If you are the law it means that you are at one with the whole. For divine law simply exists. When a person understands this, then he begins to have that attunement, when he is the law, he is not going to act in any way that will disturb or distort the true balance of the true wholeness... The New Age is an age where there is needed that group of people who through attunement can be self-governing, act as the law, as the divine, as the right, as the love.'-David Spangler, 'Relationship and Identity', pg. 89,91,93

As you can see, New Agers see 'keeping-the Law' as doing everything that they can to 'keep in tune with the Great Universal All', and not in keeping God's Ten Commandment Law. They also believe that they themselves are 'The Law'. David Spangler, New Ager, makes it even clearer in this next statement about how he really feels about God's Law:

'We can take all the Scriptures and all the teachings, and all the tablets and all the Laws, and all the marshmallows and have a jolly good bonfire and marshmallow roast, because that's all they are worth. Once you are the law, once you are the truth, you do not need it externally represented for you.' -David Spangler, 'Emergence: Rebirth of the Sacred', Findhorn Publications, pg. 144

The Ten Commandments were meant to serve as a 'mirror' that we could look into- to see where we fall short of God's perfect character, but New Ager's have substituted God's Law for 'Love'. This so-called 'Love' is based on whatever you may 'feel' is the right thing to do; there is no definite right or wrong.


I cant help but to worry about you, please take this in the best possible way in that I feel concern for you.

 

You have made a false statement.
Out of this false statement you have built a false theology. This is bad hermeneutics that often leads to heresy and the building of a cult. Look again at the verse. It does not say what you think it says.

1 Corinthians 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: (KJV)

1 Corinthians 1:7 so that ye are not behind in any gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, (Young's)

It does not say that Paul is expecting the Corinthians to fall behind in any of the gifts. That is a false statement that you have been repeating. It is wrong.

Paul makes a statement of fact.
"ye are not behind in any gift"
Not "you are expecting," but rather, "you ARE not behind in any gift. There is a big difference. He was speaking of the gifts at that time, in ca. 50 A.D. It was a statement concerning the present condition of the church at the time of the writing of the epistle.
They were also waiting for the coming of Christ, just as all believers do. The two thoughts have nothing to do with each other as far as time is concerned.
DHK

 

DHK mentioned it before in a thread about a year 1/2 or so ago. Thats why I was asking for the other scriptures so that I could refresh my memory. Briguy brought some scriptures up (pg4 of this thread), but I don't think that was all of them?

I also know that in 1Cor. 13:10 is a very pivitol verse as to some saying that the gifts have ceased. (This is where the 70 AD argument and the bible being the "that which is perfect" comes into play.) If it is the compleated word (the bible) or if it is Jesus comming again, or the other ideas of whet the perfect/complete is.