Featured Faulty Theology

Then the definition of holy cannot include worthy of worship.

 

Yes. ! Peter 2:9; Leviticus 20:26

 

Oh, worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness!
Tremble before Him, all the earth. Psalm 96:9

 

Yes, that is a logical deduction.

So Romans 5:12 is not about physical death?

 

And Moses stood on holy ground. Should he have worshipped the ground? The Sabbath day was holy, should we worship the day? Israel was a holy nation, should we worship Israel? The elements in the tabernacle and later the temple were holy, should those elements be worshipped?

Holy does not equal worthy of worship. That is not part of the definition.

 

I have always maintained that the fall brought forth both physical and spiritual death.

 

OK.

 

Nope it just means sacred

 

I did not say you did but you jumped in on the arguments of those that did

 

I agree on the technical observation that they were never called holy.
Now, holy is defined in scriptures as set apart from sin-and/or-that-which-is-profane, and Adam and Eve were set apart in the garden. But yes, you are technically correct.

Re: Christ's example in my post #46. But again, you are in a way, technically correct.
However, I've provided some scriptures to that effect in #46.

Agreed.

I think I see you point but that difficulty is solved in realizing that the believer's justified state in Christ is far greater than Adam's pre-fall state:

• Pre-fall Adam was not joined unto the Lord in one spirit (1Co.6:17).
• Pre-fall Adam was not sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (Eph.1:13).
• Pre-fall Adam was not a member of Christ's body, of his flesh, and of his bones (Eph.5:30).
• Pre-fall Adam did not have the righteousness of God as we do in Christ today (Php.3:9).
• etc.

Only the above understanding of how N.T. church-age salvation differs from any previous or upcoming dispensation solves the difficulty.
Consider that otherwise, the difficulty remains, not only in the example of Adam, but in the angels as well. The Bible clearly states that the angels are spirits (Ps.104:4) and sons of God (Job 1:6; 2:1, 38:7, etc) and yet some of them do fall and end up in the lake of fire - but again, their pre-fall state is not like our post-redemption state at all.
Our state is far greater and more secure because we have Christ's own life and righteousness fueling our spirits.

 

Holy set apart for and by God!

 

How so?

 

Calvinism teaches that God quickens man's spirit so it can believe. They are made "spiritually alive." Once the heart is regenerated that person will believe and become a part of God's family. Calvinist's believe in perseverance of the saints (the "P" in TULIP) meaning that the elect cannot lose their salvation, cannot revert to a spiritually dead state.

Yet if Calvinists believe Adam was spiritually alive, then made to be spiritually dead, that goes against their own theology, does it not?

 

So you are saying there are degrees of being "spiritually alive?" Adam was spiritually alive but not as spiritually alive as justified New Testament saints?

Angels are spirits, not fleshly. Flesh can be spiritually dead or spiritually alive. Are you saying spirits can be spiritually alive? I would think that goes against Romans 8.

 

No. Adam wasn't regenerated when created, you, like JonC are trying to equate pre/post fall as having the same parameters. The saints are those who are saved. Adam did not need saving pre fall, there was nothing to be saved from.

Furthermore, Adam would not be losing salvation if he was never saved in the first place.

Finally, if Adam was one of the elect, he would have been saved post-fall. That being said, many Calvinists, myself included, prefer the term preservation of the saints as opposed to the perseverance of the saints.

 

So we are back to my assertion that Adam and Eve are a special case when it comes to discussing spiritual life.

 

All , save for jesus, areborn with sin natures, so we must be born againto have spiritual life, but Adam was created sinless in his humanity, thus was already spiritually alive to God!

 

MB what is it i have not established?

 

Heresy