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Featured Validity of Scripture, why the Apocrypha was rejected and is not Canon.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    From the Encyclopaedia Britannica...
    "Apocrypha, (from Greek apokryptein, “to hide away”), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term’s usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded. In its broadest sense apocrypha has come to mean any writings of dubious authority."

    Many false doctrines came into the church and are supported by the writings of the Gnostics and by the Apocrypha (The Apocrypha are the books which some try to claim are canonical and which are included in some Bibles. They are based on mysticism and supposedly contain the secret doctrines (hidden things, which are opened to the enlightened or illuminated ones.) The Apocrypha is a collection of books with mysticism and fables mixed into stories, not books of faith. Not a bit of it is inspired, or even claims to be. If fact, the Jews never considered these stories to be divinely inspired. On the contrary, they denied their authority. At the time of Christ we have the testimony of Josephus that they were only 22 books divinely inspired by God. These books are the same as our thirty-nine in the Old Testament. The books of the Apocrypha were not among these. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books. (The Old Testament Canon in the Bible contains 39 books while the Hebrew canon has 22 or 24. These are the exact same books as the Protestants have in their Bibles, but they are just arranged differently and some of the books are combined into one. For example, Kings is one book. There is not 1st Kings and 2nd Kings. Also, all of the 12 minor prophets (Hosea through Malachi) are one book in the Hebrew Canon.) Jerome, a Biblical scholar who was able to read the Hebrew Canon and was translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. The leaders in Rome forced him to include it in his translation, and later they began a campaign to banish Jerome.

    Regarding the Apocrypha, The Council of Trent decreed:

    Whoever shall not receive as sacred and canonical all these books and every part of them, as they are commonly read in the Catholic Church, and are contained in the old Vulgate Latin edition, or shall knowingly and deliberately despise the aforesaid traditions, let him be accursed. - Council of Trent fourth session.

    These writings were never considered part of the Canon, as they clearly contradict the Scriptures as can be seen in the following few examples:

    Bewitching Art:

    Tobias 6:4-8 ... Open the fish, and take the heart and liver and the gall .....if a devil or an evil spirit trouble any, we must make a smoke thereof before the man or the woman, and the party shall no more be vexed. As for the gall, it is good to anoint a man that hath witness in his eyes, and he shall be healed.

    The Biblical rebuke to this statement is found in Mark 16:17 and Acts 16:18:

    And signs will follow to those believing these things: in My name they will cast out demons. Mark 16:17

    ... But being distressed, and turning to the demonic spirit, Paul said, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her! And it came out in that hour. Acts 16:18

    Salvation by Works:

    Tobias 12:9 For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.

    Biblical rebuke: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers. 1 Peter 1:18-19

    Prayer for Dead:

    2 Maccabees 12:43-45, ... For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead ....Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

    Biblical rebuke: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

    The Apocrypha was never accepted by the Reformation and the fact is that those translations that lean heavily on Catholic documents are highly problematic.
     
  2. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is a good explanation I came across that lays it out..

    "Rejection by the Jewish Community
    3. The "oracles of God" were given to the Jews (Rom. 3:2) and they rejected the Old Testament Apocrypha as part of this inspired revelation. Interestingly, Jesus had many disputes with the Jews, but He never disputed with them regarding the extent of the inspired revelation of God.2

    4. While the Dead Sea scrolls contain copies of several books of the Apocrypha, they contain far more copies of pseudepigraphal books like 1 Enoch that even the Roman Catholic church admits are clearly not inspired. What is important to note here, however, is that owning copies of a book does not imply belief in that book's inspiration. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain a variety of community rules, historical documents, festival calendars, and other uninspired documents that the community found useful. The scrolls do not contain commentaries on the Apocrypha as they do for the Jewish Old Testament books, and they do not cite the Apocrypha authoritatively as scripture. This probably indicates that even the Essene community did not regard the Apocrypha as highly as the Jewish Old Testament books.

    5. Many ancient Jews rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Philo never quoted the Apocrypha as Scripture. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books.3 In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written.

    Rejection by many in the Catholic Church
    6. The Catholic Church has not always accepted the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha was not officially accepted by the Catholic Church at a universal council until 1546 at the Council of Trent. This is over a millennium and a half after the books were written, and was a counter reaction to the Protestant Reformation.4

    7. Many church Fathers rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture, and many just used them for devotional purposes. For example, Jerome, the great Biblical scholar and translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture though, supposedly under pressure, he did make a hurried translation of it. In fact, most of the church fathers in the first four centuries of the Church rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Along with Jerome, names include Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius.

    8. The Apocryphal books were placed in Bibles before the Council of Trent and after but were placed in a separate section because they were not of equal authority. The Apocrypha rightfully has some devotional purposes, but it is not inspired.

    False Teachings
    9. The Apocrypha contains a number of false teachings (see: Errors in the Apocrypha). (To check the following references, see http://www.newadvent.org/bible.)

     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If you are a Sda member, then you holds to theology not found in scripture either!
     
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  4. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent in 1546 AD. This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit. We can look and easily find the history of the Canon, as the usual division of the Old Testament by the Jews was a total of 24 books: These 24 books contain all the material in our numbering of 39 in the Bible. Now Josephus spoke concerning the canon, but his book division combined Ruth-Judges and Lamentation-Jeremiah for a total of 22 books rather than 24:

    "For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, ... only 22 books. which contain the records of ail the past times; which are justly believed to be divine;...It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers;...and how firmly we have given credit to these books of our own nation is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add anything to them, or to make any change in them." (Flavius Josephus Against Apion Book 1, Section 8).

    Here if from the Blue Letter Bible site...
    "There are doctrines and practices contained in the Apocrypha that are contrary to what the Scripture teaches. They include the following." and it goes into it in depth

    Why Were the Books of the Old Testament Apocrypha Rejected as Holy Scripture by the Protestants?
     
  5. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    I think we addressed that, and now its just baiting and you know it.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why would holding to non biblical theology be approved or commanded?
     
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  7. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So lets go into the Sabbath and see what is scriptural and what is not. Lets look and see what scripture actually says, and above all, what Jesus Christ Himself taught:.

    Jesus Christ is “Lord even of the Sabbath day” as the Creator. Jesus said,“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8. By identifying Himself as “Lord even of the Sabbath day,” Jesus was showing that He was the One who originally created Earth in six days, and rested on the seventh day. And the New Testament makes clear that Jesus is the Creator...

    "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made." John 1:3

    "He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not". John 1:10

    "God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Eph. 3:9

    "For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Col. 1:16

    So scripture makes clear Jesus Christ is our Creator and also gave us the Sabbath for man not just the Jews.

    "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"Mark 2:27

    Not only did Jesus create the Sabbath but He makes clear it was the seventh day and Holy...
    "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

    "And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23

    Now you can check the scriptures and it will make clear the Sabbath is on Saturday, while Sunday is "the first day of the week". Jesus Christ regularly kept the Sabbath, taught much about the Sabbath, and clearly stated that He is "Lord even of the Sabbath day" (Mat. 12:8). Jesus Christ never mentioned "the first day of the week" even one time. He taught nothing about it. The Sabbath continues after the cross (Luke 23:54-56) and was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:42-44). There is no biblical authorization for the change of the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

    God made the Sabbath at the beginning of the world (Gen. 2:1-3) before any Jews existed, to be a blessing to all people. Most importantly, it is a special sign that Jesus Christ is the true Creator of heaven and earth.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sabbath was given to national Israel, under Old Covenant, but under the New Covenant, the Church never was placed upon it again, but now under the Lord's day, Sunday, day he arose!
     
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  9. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    How many Jews were at Creation, I think we know the answer. The Sabbath was made at Creation for man.

    Mark 2:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
    "27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
    28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

    Christ observed the Sabbath and He set an example for us to follow:

    Luke 4:16 King James Version (KJV)
    "16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."

    Jesus followed the "custom" of going to the synagogue each Sabbath, and nowhere does scripture have anything contesting this. The practice of observing the first day of the week as Sabbath has no sanction either in Christ or in the New Testament.

    Luke 4:17 King James Version (KJV)
    "17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,"

    The Sabbath was not only for going to church in order to worship but also to hear God’s Word. Christ also did even more:

    Luke 4:31-41 King James Version (KJV)
    31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
    32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
    33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
    34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
    35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.
    36 And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.
    37 And the fame of him went out into every place of the country round about.
    38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
    39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
    40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
    41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ."

    On the Sabbath day we find Christ in His mission to teach, to relieve the oppressed, to heal every kind of disease, and to restore those who are brokenhearted and without hope.
    Truly, Christ was the Lord of the Sabbath in every way, and He gave this gift to us at Creation for our benefit.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was born under the law, under OC, so now under the new One, no longer obligated to keep Saturday Sabbath as Israel did!
     
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  11. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    That's not what scripture says, the Sabbath is the 'Lords Day':
    Exodus 20:8-11
    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    It is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, not Moses' sabbath, or the Jews sabbath, or anyone Else's sabbath.

    Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

    We see the same.

    Deuteronomy 5:12-13
    12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

    Again the same.

    Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

    It was not 'Moses' sabbath.

    Leviticus 19:1-2
    1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy. 3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

    Leviticus 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

    Isaiah 56:4-6
    4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

    Ezekiel 20:12-13
    12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

    Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.

    Ezek 20:19-24
    19I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
    20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. 23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

    Ezekiel 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

    Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

    Ezekiel 23:38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

    The Lord claims the sabbath as His very own. It is a day, therefore it is literally, the Lord's day. This clear so how many times must the Lord call the sabbath His day to understand that there is only one day in the scriptures that would be referred to as the Lord's day? Other than the seventh day sabbath, the Lord's day can also refer to the day on which He will return to this earth. That is all. Sunday, or the first day of the week is never referred to as the Lord's day in the scriptures.

    This title was only applied to Sunday later on, to cover their deception. It was applied by those who began the apostasy and abomination which is as you say not commanded or approved by the Bible.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    9 of the 10 Commandments were brought back over to us under the NC, but the Sabbath was not! Do you see Sunday worship as taking mark of the beast then?
     
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  13. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you start a study on that instead of trying to derail everyone else's thread.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I just find it very ironic that someone in a Cult would be blasting away at those in Catholic church for false theology!
     
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  15. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Your posts are so filled with lies and half-truths that it is difficult to know where to begin.
    Suffice it to say - you NEVER seem to do your homework properly . . .

    First of all - ;let's call the Books by their proper name - the Deuterocanonical Books. "Apocrypha" refers to many extrabiblical writings that are NOT Scripture.

    Let's pick through the lies at random . . .
    LIE #1:

    "The Apocrypha was not officially accepted by the Catholic Church at a universal council until 1546 at the Council of Trent."

    This is a LIE of gargantuan proportions. the Deuterocanonicals were ALWAYS part of the Catholic Canon of Scripture. As a matter of fact - they were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon during the 1st century. They weren't ejected until the 2nd century.
    Looks like its time for a history lesson . . .

    - The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified.
    - It was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo eleven years later (393).
    - At the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
    - 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
    - 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.
    -
    The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

    It can be shown from the almost 200 references to the 7 Deuterocanonical Books on the pages of the New Testament that Jesus and the NT writers studied from these Books.

    Half-Truth #1:
    "The "oracles of God" were given to the Jews (Rom. 3:2) and they rejected the Old Testament Apocrypha as part of this inspired revelation. "

    Absolute nonsense.
    About 40 years after Jesus died and rose from the dead, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. The Temple was desecrated and completely destroyed. Jesus foretold that this was going to happen in Mark 13: 1‐4.

    Not long after this, a group of Rabbis asked permission from the Roman authorities to hold a Rabbinical school at Jabneh (or Jamnia). One of the things discussed was use of the Greek translation of the OT (the Septuagint) by early Christians.

    At this gathering, they decided to eject 7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) that they felt were "uninspired." They provided a new Greek translation because the early Christians were converting the Jews using the Septuagint, which was compiled about 200 years before the birth of Christ.

    The main advocate for removing the 7 Deuterocanonical Books was Rabbi Akiva, who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kohkba was the "real Messiah" during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD).

    So, Luther chose to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ”. This became the official Protestant Canon.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Only the 66 Canon Books have been officially recognized by God as being His scriptures!
     
  17. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Really?

    WHO told you this?
    WHO told you the Canon of the NT??
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Holy Spirit Himself testified to only being the 66!
     
  19. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Okay - WHEN did He do this?

    WHO told you that He did this??
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those 66 books were received as inspired scripture and being copied around at end of first, and early in second Century!
     
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