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THE SABBATH POLL

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 6, 2006.

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THE SABBATH POLL

  1. The Law is abolished and so the Sabbath no longer needs to be kept

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%

  2. We need to keep the Law of God but the Sabbath doesnt matter

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%

  3. The Law of God still applies and so does the Sabbath but it is Sunday

    9 vote(s)
    45.0%

  4. The Law of God still applies to us today and so does the 7th Day Sabbath

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Top Posters
Page 5 of 9
  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Psalm 111:7,8: The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever , and are done in truth and uprightness.
     
    #81 Claudia_T, May 7, 2006
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    We should be exact when we post the Law and make sure we say the Law of the Tablets or Ten Commandments.
     
    #82 Brother Bob, May 7, 2006
  3. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd Active Member

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    God's law - simply stated is "The soul that sinneth shall surely die."

    The Ten Commandments - are part and parcel of the Mosaic Law. These commandments are elaborated on in the "rest" of the Mosaic Law.

    The rest of Exodus (after chapter 20) - Leviticus - and Deuteronomy - expand on each of the ten given in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5.

    Interesting thought - between the number of actual "laws" and those added by the religious leaders - I'm told there were 365 in number. One for each day of the year - excepting leap year - of course.

    Acts 20:7 - And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    1 Corinthians 16:2 - Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

    The Sabbath is the seventh day - usually. There were other Sabbaths - other than the seventh day - Passover - and other special observances.

    It would seem that the above two verses indicate that the early church - led by the apostles - worshipped on the first day - not the seventh day.
     
    #83 Dan Todd, May 7, 2006
  4. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Amen Dan!
     
    #84 standingfirminChrist, May 7, 2006
  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Wonder why Jesus preached them? Also, The Ten was what was carried over by the preists in the Ark of the Covenant.

    The soul that sinneth shall die "God's Law".
    What is sin? In order for the soul to sin it must sin against something and what did it do to sin?

    Please tell me which of the Ten can you break and not get forgiveness of and go to Heaven. Can you murder,steal,covet,adultery what?

    BTW why are you keeping the one concerning the Sabbath?
     
    #85 Brother Bob, May 7, 2006
  6. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    "FIRST DAY" BIBLE TEXTS

    Millions of conscientious Christians attend church every Sunday, the first day of the week. They do so believing that somewhere, somehow, someone changed the day of worship. Either that, or they aren't aware that God set aside the seventh day, not the first day of the week as His holy day.
    It is true, a change has been made.
    But by whom? God made the Sabbath during the first week of earth's history. He set it aside as a weekly appointment between man and Himself as a blessing, a refreshment, a date between two lovers so to speak (God and man).
    If God changed His mind about His special appointment day with us, wouldn't He have recorded so momentous an adjustment in the Bible?

    There're eight texts in the New Testament that mention the first day of the week. Look at them carefully.
    Matthew 28:1
    Mark 16:1, 2.
    Mark 16:9.
    Luke 24:1.
    John 20:1.
    John 20:19.
    Acts 20:7, 8.
    1 Corinthians 16:1, 2.
    The first five texts simply state that the women came to the sepulcher early on the resurrection morning, and that Jesus rose from the dead.
    Now look up John 20:19 in your Bible. It tells us that Jesus appeared to the disciples later on the resurrection day. It says that the reason they were assembled was "for fear of the Jews."
    They were scared. No telling when the Jews might grab them and treat them to the same fate as their Master. They were hiding.
    They had seen their beloved Master die on Friday. They "returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56. And now they're hiding with the doors shut "for fear of the Jews." John 20:19.
    There's no mention of a change.
    The seventh text is Acts 20:7, 8. It says "and upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together."
    This was a night meeting the dark part of the first day of the week. In Bible reckoning, the dark part of the day comes before the light part. Genesis 1:5 "and God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." The dark part comes first.
    The Bible reckons a day from sunset to sunset.
    The seventh day begins at sunset Friday evening. The first day of the week begins sunset Saturday evening.

    Paul is together with his friends on the dark part of the first day of the week — Saturday night. This is a farewell get-together. He preached until midnight, when poor Eutychus falls out the window. (Acts 20:9).
    Verse eleven says that they talked till the break of day and then Paul departed. Verse thirteen shows that Paul spent that Sunday morning traveling to Assos.
    There's nothing here either concerning a change of the Sabbath.
    The New English bible translates this text like this:
    "On the Saturday night, in our assembly for the breaking of bread, Paul, who was to leave the next day, addressed them, and went on speaking until midnight." Acts 20:7.
    The last text mentions the first day of the week in 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2.
    It says — "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." Verse three tells that he will bring the offering to Jerusalem.
    As he had done in Galatia, so Paul also requests of those in Corinth to have a collection all ready when he would come to take it to the poor saints in Jerusalem. There's nothing in the text about a church service, but each person is to "lay by him in store." The first day of the week was the best time for the people to set money aside because later in the week it would be spent. That's true today as well! Paul requested this so that "there be no gatherings when I come." 1 Corinthians 16:2.
    At this time the Christians are suffering hardship in Jerusalem and Paul is making his rounds to the churches taking up a collection for them. (We should be that thoughtful today).
    There's nothing in this text either about a change of God's Sabbath to Sunday.
    Concerning worship, what was Paul's custom?
    Here it is.
    "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbaths reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2.
    Jesus, as our example also had the custom of attending church on Saturday, the seventh day. (Luke 4:16).


    The book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon the Sabbath day
    (See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4,11)

    In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why not if he did not keep it?

    Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it "the Sabbath Day" (Acts 13:14)

    In the great Christian council in A.D. 52, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciple, James called it "the Sabbath" (see Acts 51:21)

    God has pronounced a special blessing upon all Gentiles who keep the Sabbath (See Isaiah 56:6,7)

    This Sabbath blessing is in the prophecy that refers wholly to the Christian dispensation (See Isaiah 56)
     
    #86 Claudia_T, May 7, 2006
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    There are several calendars do they all have Sunday as the first day of the week?

    Dan;
    If you don't mind would you please tell me which of the ten or how many of them can you break as a Christian and not be sinning?
     
    #87 Brother Bob, May 7, 2006
  8. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Dan,


    So is it your opinion that we no longer have to keep the 10 Commandments?

    Or is it that we do, but the Sabbath is Sunday?


    If the Bible says that sin is transgression of the law...
    1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    and the Bible also says we are not to sin just because we are under grace...
    Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


    Then how could you wind up thinking that we dont have to keep the law?


    Because to me thats simple as A B C..

    breaking the law = SIN,

    and grace doesnt mean you can now break the law

    I dont see how in the world anyone could end up thinking that somehow means that we now should sin and break the law.

    Claudia
     
    #88 Claudia_T, May 7, 2006
  9. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    We call Saturday and Sunday the week-end, making Sunday the end of the week - the seventh day.

    For me, Monday is the first day of the week thereby making Sunday the seventh day.

    I 'formally' worship God on Sunday because that's when we have church and that's the way it's always been done, in my lifetime.

    Informally, I worship God every day.

    Are we majoring on the minors?
     
    #89 I Am Blessed 24, May 7, 2006
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Did we always have leap year or did we get behind some days thoughout time. Does anyone really know that Sunday is Sunday? Which calendar has been used down through time have we always used this one? A lot of questions that could make the exact day mute.
     
    #90 Brother Bob, May 7, 2006
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "Could" but then we would have to say "it is a miracle that both Jews and Christians agree to the order world wide".

    However in this case - I assure you this is a matter of science. Notice that leap year -- days inserted never change the weekly cycle? That has always been true. Roman to Gregorian for example - we have an insert of 10 days but Friday still followed Thursday and thursday still followed Wednesday. There has been no exception to that pattern since the time of the Roman Empire -- before Christ.

    Atheist scientists themselves would dispute any claim to have "lost days" since the Roman Calendar.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #91 BobRyan, May 7, 2006
  12. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    No the Sabbath is not a minor thing at all. It is one of the Ten Commandments. In fact the Sabbath is the central commandment.

    Exodus 20:
    8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    The 7th day Sabbath is what distinguishes God the Creator from all the other false gods. It identifies Him as Creator of all things. He created the world and everything in it in 6 days and then on the 7th day He rested from all His works.

    Jesus said that many reject God's commandments and keep their own traditions instead...

    Mk:7:9: And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
     
    #92 Claudia_T, May 7, 2006
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Past Calendar Changes
    The calendar now in use, a Roman calendar, has been changed, but that change did not break the weekly cycle.
    Prior to its change, it was called the Julian calendar, because it originated at the time of Julius Caesar, 45 B.C. -- several years before the birth of Christ. The one change was ordered by Pope Gregory, and since then it has been called the Gregorian calendar.
    The Julian Calendar was imperfect -- it inserted leap years too frequently. Back in 45 B.C. they supposed the year was exactly 365 1/4 days long, and to take care of the extra one-fourth day each year, added a day to the month of February every four years. But it was found later the year was 12 minutes and 14 seconds shorter than this. Consequently, by the time of Pope Gregory, the calendar had drifted TEN DAYS away from the seasons. The Spring equinox, consequently, fell on March 11th, instead of March 21st.
    To correct this, ten days were dropped from the calendar. But they were dropped only from the number of days in the MONTH not from the number of days in the WEEK. A man named Lilius proposed the method which was adopted in making the change. In the Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 9, p. 251, under article "Lilius," explaining this change, we read:
    "Thus, every imaginable proposition was made, only one idea was never mentioned, viz., the abandonment of the seven-day week."
    In the Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 3, p. 740, article "Chronology," we read:
    "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted. Thus, when Gregory XIII reformed the calendar in 1582, Thursday, 4 October was followed by Friday, 15 October. So in England, in 1752, Wednesday, 2 September, was followed by Thursday, 14 September."
    Since the Catholics changed the calendar, the Catholic Encyclopedia is the best historical authority there is on the question, and is proof positive.
    So that the reader may clearly understand it, and SEE how it was worked out on the Calendar, we reproduce below the actual calendar. The change was made in Spain, Portugal, and Italy, in 1582. Here is the calendar for October, 1582!
    OCTOBER 1582
    Sun. Mon. Tue. Wed. Thur. Fri. Sat.
    1 2 3 4 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    You will notice how ten days were dropped out. One day was the 4th, and the very next day was the 15th of October. But the 4th was Thursday, and the next day was FRIDAY.
    To make it still plainer, the 29th of September that year was a Sabbath, or Saturday. The 30th was Sunday. The 1st of October was Monday, the 2nd was Tuesday, the 3rd was Wednesday, the 4th was Thursday, and the next day was Friday, but it was not the 5th: it was the 15th. And the following day was Saturday, the 16th. Actually Saturday, the 16th, was just one week of seven days after the preceding Saturday, the 29th of September. There had been exactly seven days, seven sunsets, from one Sabbath to the next. The change in the calendar DID NOT IN ANY WAY CHANGE THE SABBATH, or the succession of the DAYS OF THE WEEK.
    Now the British countries refused to change the calendar when the pope ordered it. They continued with the old Julian calendar until 1752. And while their days of the month were different, yet their days of the week were JUST THE SAME AS IN ROME. Those who kept the Sabbath in England kept the same SATURDAY that was called Saturday in Rome. Those who observed Sunday observed the same day, both in Rome where the calendar had been changed, and in London where it had not. The English countries changed the calendar in 1752. By that time it was necessary to drop out 11 days. The change was made in September as follows:
    SEPTEMBER 1752
    Sun. Mon. Tue. Wed. Thur. Fri. Sat.
    1 2 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30

    Now in Russia, the calendar was never changed until relatively recently. Consequently, in the year 1907, the day that we called the 14th of August, the Russians called the 1st of August. Our calendars were 13 days apart. Yet in BOTH countries, we both called that same day SATURDAY. In BOTH countries, SATURDAY fell on the same day of the week. The calendar has since been changed in Russia. And still their Sunday is our Sunday -- their Saturday is our Saturday. For reference, see above article, "Chronology," Catholic Encyclopedia.
    And so we see that the calendar that has been IN EFFECT SINCE 45 B.C. -- prior to the birth of Christ, proves that there has never been any change in the weekly cycle from the time of Christ until now. The SATURDAY of today is the same seventh day of the week as it was in CHRIST'S time. We can, therefore, be sure we keep the same Sabbath day that Christ kept, setting us an example -- the same day He said He was LORD of (Mark 2:28).
     
    #93 BobRyan, May 7, 2006
  14. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    If you really take time to study the Bible prophecies out you will discover that the changing of the Sabbath from the 7th day to Sunday is the "Mark of the Beast" warned about in the book of Revelation.

    Notice the sabbath commandment is quoted in verse 7, then in verses 11 and 12 God's people who "Keep the Commandments OF GOD" (not the commandments or traditions of man) are contrasted with those who receive the Mark of the Beast:

    Revelation 14:
    6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
    8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


    Now read a few quotations from the Catholics themelves:

    "The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."-Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893.



    "Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"
    "Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.


    "I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No; by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. 'Priest Enright, C.S.S.R., Kansas City, Missouri.


    "In reply to a letter of October 28, 1895, to Cardinal Gibbons, asking if the church claimed the change of the Sabbath as her mark, the following was received: 'Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act .... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.'-C.F. Thomas, Chancellor."

    There is all kinds of proof of this... much on Bible prophecy I could show to you.

    But if you want you could read this short online book about the Bible Prophecies and the Mark of the Beast:


    Mark of the Beast

    Claudia
     
    #94 Claudia_T, May 7, 2006
  15. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    REMEMBER:
    "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16.

    "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws . " Daniel 7.25.

    and remember? Revelation 14 says the saints will keep the Commandments OF GOD..

    will you obey God or man??


    "The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret, even divine laws....The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of binding and loosing the sheep."-From the Prompta Bibliotheca published in 1900 in Rome by the press of the propaganda.

    "The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.

    The pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right by correcting and changing laws."-Pope Nicholas, Dis. 96.

    Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus
     
    #95 Claudia_T, May 7, 2006
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In D.L. Moody's sermon on the Ten Commadments he stated this with reference to the 4th commandment --

    Here Moody likens rebellion against this commandment to the rebellion of Samson and asks each Christian to evaluate whether or not they may in fact be in rebellion against this Command of Christ the Creator.

    As James points out – he who is in violation of one – is in violation of all.

    Again Moody shows this to be an issue of “obedience” in worship to God. He also makes the assignment James makes by claiming that to ignore this commandment is to “show contempt for God’s Law”

    Obviously according to this text Moody was aware of the suggestion that God’s Law has some how been broken/abolished/ended or taken away and addresses the Bible problem with such a suggestion. His conclusion is that Christ the Creator’s Sabbath commandment is even more necessary today than in the Garden.

    Here Moody addresses another suggestion along the same lines – that the Commandments of Christ the Creator remain – all except for the CREATION commandment calling for worship of creation’s God – the Creator of all mankind and reminding us of the Creator’s act in making us.

    It is that same emphasis and focus that we see in Rev 14 “Fear God and Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the Earth the Sea and the springs of water”

    Though Moody does not apply the Mark of the Beast aspect of Rev 14 to this topic he does point to its role in what he expects to lead to the ruin of the church and the nation.

    In the quote above – Moody explores the suggestion that mankind will naturally “Worship every day:” even without a regular set 7th day of worship as commanded by Christ the Creator. He seems to have a point well made.

    ===================================================



    =========================================
    [***Editor's Note: Bob please do not post quotes of entire works by other authors. If you will PM me with a link to this material I will gladly add it into your post. However, I am deleting the rest of the full quotation.]

    PUBLISHER'S NOTE: The author of this book was not an advocate of the tenets of Seventh Day Adventism.

    </font>[/QUOTE]

    [ May 07, 2006, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
    #96 BobRyan, May 7, 2006
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    That was a "super long post" - I ask your indulgence for that. But I thought that D.L. Moody's perspective was worth posting "anyway".
     
    #97 BobRyan, May 7, 2006
  18. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    I agree, Bro. Bob. I see nothing wrong with people going to church on the day their particular church hold services - whatever the day.

    The main thing is to attend and worship...
     
    #98 I Am Blessed 24, May 7, 2006
  19. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    Hello Bob,

    I edited your long post down per the BB policy regarding the posting of copyrighted material (other people's work). Please do not post quotations of entire works. If you will PM me with a link to the source of that material I'll be happy to add it intt your post above.

    Yours in Christ,

    Bible-Boy,
    Forum Moderator
     
    #99 Bible-boy, May 7, 2006
  20. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    D.L. Moody also encouraged people to attend Sunday Services as the "Sabbath Day". He did not advocate Saturday as the day of worship.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #100 Jim1999, May 7, 2006
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