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The Dietary Laws

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by gekko, May 8, 2006.

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  1. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    "Leviticus 11

    1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. 3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. 4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. 9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you. 13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 Every raven after his kind; 16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. 20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you. 21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; 22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. 23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you. 24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even. 25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even. 26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean. 27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even. 28 And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you. 29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind, 30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole. 31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even. 32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed. 33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it. 34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean. 35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you. 36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean. 37 And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean. 38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you. 39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even. 40 And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even. 41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten. 42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. 43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. 44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. "


    what ya'll think of this? should we follow it?

    you'll probably provide verses like "its not what goes into a man that defiles a man, but its what comes out" and there's a couple others i know... i've done a little bit of research on this...

    i personally believe we should follow this:
    1) we're grafted into the vine
    2)God did not intend the scavengers - the unclean animals - to be food in the first place
    3)Noah new the difference between clean and unclean before those commandments were given
    4)Peter followed those commandments after Jesus rose to heaven (look at the vision of God sending down the basket of unclean animals - peter said "no, i havn't eaten anything unclean in my life, and im not going to start now" something like that)

    and i'll post the other points after some responses are made.

    God bless
     
    #1 gekko, May 8, 2006
  2. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    if we look at number 4 in the natural, we would have to say God has cleansed those animals as he said, 'That which I have cleansed, call thou not common.'

    if we look at it in the spiritual, we see the true meaning of the verse. That Peter was being shown that salvation was going to be offered to the gentiles.
     
    #2 standingfirminChrist, May 8, 2006
  3. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    umm... that whole scripture with peter...

    its not refering to the physical at all... the meaning of the vision is talking about the gentiles... the vision of the unclean animals represented the gentiles...

    show me where it talks about the clean and unclean animals?
     
    #3 gekko, May 8, 2006
  4. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    another point...

    show me scripture where God has cleansed the unclean animals...
     
    #4 gekko, May 8, 2006
  5. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Acts 10:14-16 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
     
    #5 standingfirminChrist, May 8, 2006
  6. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    as I said, it was a spiritual truth, not a natural. But one could misinterpret it to say God has cleansed the unclean animals because 'all manner of beasts' were in the sheet.
     
    #6 standingfirminChrist, May 8, 2006
  7. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    oh...

    so whats your view on whether we should keep those laws or not?
     
    #7 gekko, May 8, 2006
  8. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    I believe Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

    We are to be faithful stewards of all that God has entrusted to us, that includes our bodies.

    God knew that certain foods were not good for our consumption, this is why He gave us those dietary laws. I think we would be better off if we abstained from those animals deemed unclean by the Word of God; i.e., shellfish, that which chews the cud, etc.
     
    #8 standingfirminChrist, May 8, 2006
  9. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    wow... your the first i've met that actually believes in abstaining from unclean animals...

    praise the Lord!


    now im just waiting for others...
     
    #9 gekko, May 8, 2006
  10. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    gekko,

    I do believe we should abstain, but in some cases, it is next to impossible. For instance, when one lives on a limited income such as my wife and I (both on disability), and some that the Bible calls unclean are cheaper than that which is considered clean... forces one to purchase the one that one truly should not eat.

    We pray and ask God to cleanse it and to nourish our bodies.

    It is not always we eat such, but there is the occasion. Most of the time, it is pasta and potatoes. We do not eat beef, can't afford shrimp, etc.
     
    #10 standingfirminChrist, May 8, 2006
  11. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    beef is clean...

    but i see what you mean...

    if it is inevitable... then what can we do?
    so true.
     
    #11 gekko, May 8, 2006
  12. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

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    I began laying off the pork and catfish. My health problems began to clear up. No longer as sickly as I used to be. Every once in a while I might slip (i.e. a bite of Pepperoni pizza for instance).
     
    #12 music4Him, May 8, 2006
  13. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter New Member

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    I believe discussion is a good, and that healthiness is a virtue, but I cannot help but think that when the books are opened in Heaven on Judgment Day and each man is judged on his works, that anywhere on that list is going to be how many porkchops and shrimp platters you ate. But maybe that's just me, and God really is a carnal-minded clergyman with nothing better to do than berate his patrons about how they eat, rather than getting to the heart of their struggles and giving them sincere and beneficial exhortation.
    But this one is funner, I suppose. And, boy, do we love a fun time...

    SpyHunter
     
    #13 SpyHunter, May 8, 2006
  14. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Pizza? Refresh my memory... what's it taste like? lol

    I know we ain't supposed to covet... does that include thy neighbor's pizza?
     
    #14 standingfirminChrist, May 8, 2006
  15. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    nah. i dont think God'll judge on what we eat... its just out of respect that we should do it... plus it is commanded...

    i personally think God'll judge us based on the moral laws...
     
    #15 gekko, May 8, 2006
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1 Timothy 4:1-5 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For EVERY creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    Every creature means every creature--both clean and unclean. I love to eat pork. We often eat ham, bacon with eggs, pork roast, etc. There is no condemnation from God for eating such meats for it is all good, and nothing is to be refused. It is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. We are to receive everything we eat with thanksgiving. Are you not thankful for what you eat--even it it is liver and onions or haggis?

    "Whatever is set before that eat asking no questions for conscience sakes."
    DHK
     
    #16 DHK, May 8, 2006
  17. Snitzelhoff

    Snitzelhoff New Member

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    1. True, we are.

    2. Prove that, after God allowed man to start eating meat, He said we couldn't eat scavengers.

    3. Yep. And how did Noah apply those differences? Read Genesis 8:20. He used those differences for sacrifices. Now, what did God say he could eat? The way I read Genesis 9:3, "every moving thing that liveth" means "every moving thing that liveth," and not, "the clean moving things that live."

    4. God also told Peter to eat those animals. Are you telling me He told Peter to sin? Was Peter outsmarting God by refusing?

    I know this is a novel idea, but:

    1. I believe "all things" in Romans 14 means "all things" and not "ceremonially clean meats."

    2. I believe "every creature of God" in I Timothy 4:4 means "every creature of God," and not, "the ceremonial clean creatures of God."

    3. I believe "every moving thing that liveth" in Genesis 9 means "every moving thing that liveth," and not "the ceremonially clean things that live."

    4. I believe God would not have commanded Peter to sin in Acts 10.

    5. I believe the Apostles really meant "it seemed good to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things" in Acts 15, and not, "Let's start with laying upon you this burden."

    Maybe I'm just dumb, but it seems like to continue to bind us to the Leviticus 11 laws, you'd have to redefine those things to fit your doctrine, instead of changing your doctrine to fit the words of Scripture.

    I never did figure out why exactly the Bible didn't mean what it said in the other thread, either.

    Michael
     
    #17 Snitzelhoff, May 8, 2006
  18. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter New Member

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    The sad thing is how that while claiming to follow God's commandments they are really nullifying the true Word of God by their tradition.
    I am not saying they're "unsaved" or whatever nonsense that passes for debate. But there is a very real barrier erected when one decides their preferred lifestyle dictates the dismissal of God's final word on the matter.
    Let's keep them in prayer, shall we?

    SpyHunter
     
    #18 SpyHunter, May 8, 2006
  19. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    we shall...
     
    #19 gekko, May 8, 2006
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    #1. In Acts 10 - Peter "never" eats unclean animals. God does not respond to Peter saying "HEY I told you five times to kill those cats and eat one and you have refused Me three times. What is up with that??!! Are you my follower or NOT!" And Peter ALWAYS says to God "I HAVE NEVER done that" as if that is a "good thing".

    He should be saying "God I really love you and want to follow you but I just can't bring myself to kill cats and eat them. I am really sorry about that - please forgive me".

    The fact that this is the symbol for gentiles in that dream is obvious in Peter's statement that he LEARNED the lesson and now is happily evangelizing GENTILES!

    #2. In Acts 10-11 Peter gives the moral of the story 3 times and "never says" So see gentlemen we can chew on rats.

    #3. The Lev 11 instruction tells the people of God to eat Beef, lamb, salmon, sea bass etc and to NOT eat puppies, kittens (rats, cats, dogs and bats). Those who view this as "poor thinking on the part of God" are clinging to rat-cat burgers a little too tightly just to ignore the obvious.

    #4. It is clear from Gen 6-8 that this distinction in food was known long before there was the first Jew.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #20 BobRyan, May 8, 2006
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