Losing Your Salvation?

I am sorry to hear about your Dad.

You ask a question and work to cancell out an argument that you do not care for? How silly.

You cannot make the case that it is not true that he was never saved.

Joh 10:4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice

Joh 10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Joh 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Those who are truly saved will never leave the faith.

 

No, I'm saying that the "man" in question is exernal to the "them" referenced as unremoveable. "No man can remove them from my father's hand."

 

If your interested here is a link to a commentary by Adam Clarke on the verse where he gives an explanation. LINK
I'm also sorry to hear about your dad.

 

I feel a bit arbitrary right now...

So, if my Calvinist Friends will forgive me a momentary laspe in ettiquette...

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is one entity not included in this list...

Care to guess who it is?

In John 10:28-29 the words them and man are greyed out in some KJV anyone know why that is?

It doesn't really concern me as the NIV renders the text all but identically...

I just thought it was interesting...

I agree that no man can pluck us out of God's Hand's...

But, the context seems to imply that the extraction force would be an external one...

That leaves other possibilities...

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

This is clearly talking about believers whohave already been grafted into the Root...

And, intimates the latent threat that the possibility exists that a grafted in branch can be broken off...

Luke 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luke 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

This Fig Tree was a tree in God's Garden, but wasn't bearing Fruit. (See Gal 5:22)

Here again the threat was that if the tree didn't bear fruit it would ultimately be cut down...

Note, though, that The Gardener (Jesus) doesn't give up without a 'fight' for the tree...

SMM

 

"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with Him, we shall also live with Him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him: if we deny Him, He also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet He abideth faithful: He cannot deny Himself." 2 Tim. 2:11-13

 

There are some very interesting observations concerning salvation and ones assurance in this thread. Scripture is clear that our salvation is by faith. Is it not also true that if something is held by faith that it is also true that one cannot hold the same assurance by absolute knowledge? Does not the possibility of deception have to exist to hold salvation by faith?

It would seem to me that if one holds to the notion that one cannot end up somewhere other than what one believes, that deception is impossible and salvation of necessity must be held by absolute knowledge and not faith. This would be contrary to Scripture would it not, that clearly states our hope of eternal life is held in this world by faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God?

It appears to me that there is a lot of bantering back and forth about loosing your salvation or not loosing your salvation, when the questions should really focus on how do I know that I am not deceived, thinking myself to be a fit candidate for heaven when in fact I might not be.

My question to the list would be this. How can one be absolutely sure that they in fact have heaven as their sure hope and that they are not just deceived?

Heavenly Pilgrim

 

Only surety we have is that His Spirit bears witness with our Spirit that we are the sons of God. Other than that :
For if a man seeth why doth he yet hope for,
we Hope for that which we have not seen and with patience wait for it. Also, with patience we posess our souls.

But of course that is talking to the saved. There are other Scriptures:
After you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your Salvation, and after you have believed then are you sealed with the Spirit of Holy promise.

Many want to leave out the part "after you have believed" but it is in there anyway.

Do I believe you can lose your Salvation? No, I don't but I believe that by faith.

 

Hi Brother Bob,
That seems Scriptural enough. Just the same, is it not possible to be deceived as to the Spirit’s testimony? If not, again we would hold our salvation by absolute knowledge which again is contrary to and at antipodes with faith as I see it.

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Who would not believe that these thought they were listening to the right spirit, who thought they had the testimony of the Spirit, when in fact they were being deceived by the enemy of their souls?

Again, how do you know that the spirit you are listening to is in fact The Holy Spirit and the testimony you believe you are hearing is in fact trustworthy and not mere deception?

HP

 

Lots and lots of Christians will be deceived like the foolish virgins.

 

We in the Old Regular Baptist preach a Hope but that Hope is Christ. The only time I preach close to absolute knowledge is when I am completely lifted up in the Spirit while preaching then it would be hard to convince me otherwise but unfortunately I have to come back down to nature and again I rely on my Hope by faith. I always tell others ever how much knowledge you have is ever how much faith you have. Does that sound right to you?

BTW, hello to you too.

 

Hi Claudia T,
I am reminded of the prophet Miciah in the OT. Is it possible that God might send some a delusion that in fact might appear to them to be the real Spirit, when in fact it is nothing more than a deception in line with their wondering wavering heart and will?

A lot of professing believers act like someone who states they are traveling from Kansas City to Dallas but are heading due north from Kansas City, convinced they will arrive at their destination due to the fact they have faith they will.

 

Brother Bob: I always tell others ever how much knowledge you have is ever how much faith you have. Does that sound right to you?

Hi Brother Bob,
I am not sure of the total context you state that in, but I see knowledge and faith 'generally speaking' to be miles apart. One might be loaded with knowledge yet exercise no faith at all, or one might have little knowledge yet be great in faith, or so it would 'generally' appear to me.

HP

 

Well faith is the substance of things Hoped for the evidence of things not seen. So it seems to me that Hope is made up of faith if it is the substance then ever how much faith you have increases your Hope, therefore giving more substance to your knowledge.

 

Hi Brother Bob,
I will give that some serious thought.

 

gek;
He is new to the board and is just getting aquainted, ok?

 

Hello Gekko (just kidding)

You asked about matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

We are in the kingdom. This is obvious from scripture but over the last 150 years many protestants have latched on to the man made rapture theology and gone away from their roots. Your father is right these new teachings are not consitent with scripture.

You also asked about the priests

"In the case of Jesus saying that Abiathar was the high priest instead of Ahimelech, the particular way in which Mark worded the statement eliminates any possible way of proving that either he or Jesus erred. The Greek genitive "epi Abiathar archiereos" means "at the time of Abiathar the high priest." This fits the Old Testament timing very well, since after Saul had Ahimelech murdered, Abiathar, his son, fled to David and served as his priest, and was appointed high priest when David actually became king. Under these circumstances, it would be perfectly legitimate for Jesus to refer to Abiathar as the high priest. "


Maybe you could have your father look at the Catholic Church, many jews find being Catholic is being a fullfilled jew.