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JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 16, 2006.

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  1. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Christ is the pearl???
     
    #41 Hope of Glory, May 17, 2006
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    YES

    In Christ are "hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Col. 2:3.

    He is "made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption." 1 Cor. 1:30.

    Men will discern the value of the precious pearl, and with the apostle Paul they will say,

    "What things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord." Phil. 3:7, 8.


    You must be willing to surrender all for Christ, the Pearl of GREAT PRICE
     
    #42 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  3. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    The parable of the merchantman seeking goodly pearls has a double significance:

    It also applies to Christ as seeking His lost inheritance.


    Jesus saw in lost humanity the pearl of price.


    Man was ruined by sin, but Jesus saw the possibilities of our redemption.

    We are precious to God and He saw what we might become.

    God spent all the riches of the universe, and laid them down in order to buy the pearl.

    When Jesus finds it, He resets it in His own crown:

    "For they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon His land." Zech. 9:16. "They shall be Mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels." Mal. 3:17.


    Jesus gave up all for us, we are supposed to in return give up all for Him..

    What do we give up? anything of value? NO. We give up sin, that would cause our destruction.

    We give of ourselves in full surrender, to God. As He gave of Himself to us.

    We "crucify ourselves" Paul said "I die daily".

    ..thats how this whole thing works.


    In giving ourselves to God, we must necessarily give up all that would separate us from Him. Hence the Saviour says,

    "Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be My disciple." Luke 14:33.

    Whatever draws away the heart from God must be given up.
     
    #43 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  4. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Concerning all of us learning to share...

    The amount we can stay at the sharing level is dependent upon how much of a 'stake' we have in a given doctrine or teaching...

    Obviously, there are areas that I consider Salvation Essential where I simply can not give "Wiggle Room".


    There are a lot of other areas where I can allow for a differing view point without it affecting my confession of my own faith...

    The areas where 'we' can semantically 'give ground' on, are determined by the depth of our attachment to a given point of doctrine...

    When it becomes obvious that people are butting heads one or the other can make the decision as to whether it's an area they can give ground without actually compromising what they feel they "Have To" believe...

    As an example, there are a lot of things I believe as a Pentecostal. And, within the confines of my Denomination that are required for membership in that particular denomination...

    Now, as a member I must adhere to those things, which are far and above the level of Salvation, to maintain membership in that denomination...

    I may feel a need to practice them at all times myself...

    But, I recognise that not all my Fellow Believers place the same importance on them as I do...

    So, I (try to) share what I believe without making it sound like they are under the same requirement as I am...

    And, if there is an underlying principle I feel is important I can share that principle and why I feel it's important...

    In the end if a person claims Christ as LORD they have to agree with Him as to what is proper for them and when it becomes proper for them...

    The True Gardener knows how to prune without killing the bush...

    Very few of us do... We tend to see 'apparent' imperfections and just go to hacking away...

    Hey, one finger points out four point back...

    Guilty as charged, I am... [​IMG]

    SMM
     
    #44 SpiritualMadMan, May 17, 2006
  5. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

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    1 John (KJV)
    3:9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    5:[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not

    NASB
    18(AG)We know that (AH)no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God (AI)keeps him, and (AJ)the evil one does not (AK)touch him.

    Claudia, I think I made a slight error. It says children of God CANNOT sin once and it says that, no one born of God sins, once. The meaning is the same but I don't want you or anyone else thinking it says CANNOT twice. Unless of course I missed the second one, but I don't think so.

    Now, in the NASB version of verse 18 it says that "NO ONE WHO IS BORN OF GOD SINS" . The problem is that EVERYONE I know who is born of God sins. The verse says no one, but again every one I know does sin. Is scripture wrong? Well, we know that is not the case. I'll let you explain what these verses mean before I go into more detail. If you don't know, saying "I don't know" is acceptable. Saying you just don't agree with me is not acceptable.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
    #45 Briguy, May 17, 2006
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #46 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  7. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    OK?

    Who are we laughing at or (hopefully) with?
     
    #47 SpiritualMadMan, May 17, 2006
  8. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of [the] heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
    Matthew 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

    I thought maybe I should post both verses so everyone could see what this parable is talking about and not be deceived into thinking that the pearl is Christ.
     
    #48 Hope of Glory, May 17, 2006
  9. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Hope,

    I dont see why you think Im deceiving anybody.
     
    #49 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  10. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Ok the way I have always viewed that Bible verse is that if we are born of God truly, and have ben converted we will stop our sinning and start yielding to God instead.

    like it says here:

    Rom:6:13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    Rom:6:16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


    Rom:6:19: I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.


    In my opinion, there wouldnt be any need for us to be told that, if we COULDNT sin.

    It is saying that if you ARE sinning then thats proof you havent really been born again.

    But Im not talking about every little infraction. Im talking about willful disobedience to God... rebellion.. we will often fall and fail but we get back up confess our sin and go on again walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.


    Claudia
     
    #50 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    45: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:


    Revelation, chapter 22
    "18": For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
     
    #51 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  12. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

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    Claudia, Cannot Sin and Doesn't Sin are what the Bible says in I John.

    Claudia says: It is saying that if you ARE sinning then thats proof you havent really been born again.

    Is that what you want to stick to. The proof that we are not born again is that we are still sinning? Are you saying you no longer sin? Are you saying that I am not a Christian if I sin?

    Wait 1 John says "All wrong doing is sin" We also know that we sin by Thought, Word, and Deed.

    Claudia, if you are right I am in deep doo-doo. I still sin daily and confess my sins daily.


    Claudia says: But Im not talking about every little infraction. Im talking about willful disobedience to God... rebellion.. we will often fall and fail but we get back up confess our sin and go on again walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

    Claudia, remember it says CANNOT and DOESN'T - It does not say a little sin or a whopper sin, it says CANNOT SIN and DOESN"T SIN. It does not give us the option of falling or failing at all.

    Keep your wheels turning as I can tell you are starting to think about this a little differently now.

    In Christ who washed me clean,
    Brian
     
    #52 Briguy, May 17, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    DHK on another thread called me a liar and locked the thread. ;) ;)
     
    #53 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    This is what Claudia is saying I think;

    "16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    "17": All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
     
    #54 Brother Bob, May 17, 2006
  15. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Brian,

    Can you plese show me the quotation I wrote where I said that I never sin?

    This is the same thing most all of you pull... trying to act like I say I never sin..

    please show me the quote?


    Thanks,

    Claudia
     
    #55 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  16. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Brian,

    Im starting to think a little differently now? I didnt know that... in what way is that???


    LOL!

    Claudia
     
    #56 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  17. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    sorry I said that, its just that Ive said a hundred times in a hundred different ways that I dont view myself as sinless... not even close to it.

    But its like they wont listen or something. Its no wonder you cant really have a friendly conversation with someone...

    Very frustrating

    Claudia
     
    #57 Claudia_T, May 17, 2006
  18. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

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    Hi Claudia, sorry if on any level I have offended you. I have always tried very hard to have only good, friendly conversations on the BB. I try to challange others but in a loving way. I have seen the name calling and bad "spirit" which others sometimes post and that bothers me. Anyway, this is the post I was referring to:

    Claudia says: It is saying that if you ARE sinning then thats proof you havent really been born again.

    I didn't mean to say that you were saying you didn't sin. I was making a connection between you saying the proof of not being born again is sinning, then the other way would be true, that is: not sinning = born again.

    Anyway, forgive me if I put words in your mouth.

    Now, please answer my last post!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In Christian Love,
    Brian
     
    #58 Briguy, May 18, 2006
  19. mman

    mman New Member

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    I Cor 6:11 - And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    Rom 3:24 - and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

    Notice, I Cor states they were washed, justified, and sanctified while Rom states we are justified by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

    Baptism puts one into Christ (Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:3-4). Therefore, by the grace of God, baptism puts us into Christ, where there is redemption and justification or as Paul stated, “But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ”.

    I Cor 1:2 - “To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus” – Again we have those sanctified in Christ Jesus. There is only one way found in the scriptures that to get “into Christ”.

    I Cor 1:30 - He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. – Jesus is the source of our sanctification, not our good works.

    Eph 5:26 – “that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word” – Again, it is Christ who sanctifies, not our works. The “her” is the Church. Here again, we have sanctification being tied to washing, and this tells us it is a washing of water with the word. When you read this with passages such as “Repent and be baptized…for the remission of sins” - Acts 2:38, and “Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins” – Acts 22:16, we can see this washing of water is dealing with scriptural baptism. The power is not in the water, but in the blood (I Pet 3:21, Col 2:12, Matt 26:28 with Acts 2:38).

    We are sanctified by the blood of Jesus (Heb 10:29, 13:12), not by our works. How do we come in contact with the blood? Where was His blood shed? What did His blood purchase?

    Jesus’ blood was shed at His death. We are baptized into His death Rom 6:3-4. His blood purchased the church (Acts 20:28). We are baptized into the church (I Cor 12:13, Acts 2:38, 41, 47). Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb 10:4, Matt 26:28). Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). These are all in complete agreement with one another, since we come in contact with the cleansing blood at baptism. It is no wonder that blood and water flowed from his side at His death.

    Therefore, we are sanctified and forgiven or justified, when we are baptized, according to the word of God.

    What did Paul say again? “And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” - I Cor 6:11
     
    #59 mman, May 18, 2006
  20. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Brian,

    Your apology is now accepted, except that you have to spin around three times and do a back flip afterwards (just kidding)

    anyway is this the question you want me to answer?

    "Is that what you want to stick to. The proof that we are not born again is that we are still sinning? Are you saying you no longer sin? Are you saying that I am not a Christian if I sin? "

    Well let me see... born again... I will get out my trusty desktop Bible thingy...

    1Jn:5:4: For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

    1Jn:4:7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

    1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

    Yes, I would like to stick with that.


    1.overcome the world, through faith
    2.love one another (just another way to say "keep the commandments, love God and love your neighbor, on these two hang the whole law, Jesus said)

    and finally....

    EVERYONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS--- is born of Him..

    Now what are going to do? Say that is not true? You could go "well ok HOW RIGHTEOUS do you have to be??

    wouldnt THAT be the question???

    We know for a fact that it says if you are born again you have to DO RIGHTEOUSNESS, right?

    so the question is, HOW RIGHTEOUS do you have to be?

    And from my studies over the years I have concluded that what God desires is our LOVE AND LOYALTY... He wants us to serve Him from a willing heart... He wants us to TRY to do right, though we will fail time and time again.

    Mk:12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.


    Just like if you love your husband or your wife... dont you want to please them?

    but do you always do that perfectly? course not!! should you stop trying because you arent perfect?

    dont you really think your husband or your wife wants most of all for you to WANT TO please them???

    I dont believe God will cover us with the blood of Christ is we dont love God. Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments.

    I dont believe there are going to be any rebels in heaven...

    No I dont think we can equal the Pattern which is Jesus Christ Himself and the Law, but I think God expects us to try, through faith, with His power, out of the motive of love to do our best to keep His commandments.


    Claudia
     
    #60 Claudia_T, May 18, 2006
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