Are the Fake Christians know they themselves are Fake?

Matt 7 and 1 John tell us that we may know we are saved - but they do not say that the lost may NOT know they are lost. In fact in the MAtt 7 scenario we see they are "self deceived" into thinking they ARE saved.

 

The question then comes up as to exactly what they were believing concerning Jesus...

John doesn't say they were believing on Him for Salvation...

Obviously, what they believed was inadequate to the task as they quickly threw it out when it contradicted what their preconcieved notions were...

Their own Spiritual Pre-eminence in God's Plan...

As to how to help a not-quite saved person...

It is difficult... Very difficult...

The biggest thing is to confront them with what they say they actually believe then contrast it to what Scripture say...

Is thier Salvation based on their own works?

Do they claim Jesus as Fire Insurance without Making/Allowing Him to be Lord?

This will make an interesting thread to watch.

SMM

 

Thats funny, I was just wondering the same thing, if they actually know better.


Im thinking that probably people gradually grieve away the Holy Spirit when God tries to show them things out of the Scriptures... till finally they are willing to accept the direct opposite of what God says. Once you believe one error it prepares the way for the next and the next also.

The Bible says SOME are "blind" and cannot see, believing that everything is just fine.. when in reality they are in deep spiritual trouble.


Revelation 3:
15: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16: So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19: As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

I have often wondered if someone actually writes a special book with all the Bible verses that have to do with obedience and the commandments... and then, verse by verse they sit there and think up half-way plausible-sounding excuses as to why we dont have to actually do what God says.

 

I think most have deluded themselves in their "good" works and activity. Or they just don't care, they are there because that is where their friends and family are at.

 

In this case, and in many cases I believe that the False Brethren knew that they were fakes...

This is because, in these cases, the behavior noticably contradicted the established norm...

They *had* to know they were doing things 'against the grain'...

SMM

 

Matt 7:21-23 Obviously sincere folks arguing with Jesus on the day of judgment. They believed in Jesus, worked for Jesus, and called Him Lord, but they were lost. Why? They weren't doing the will of God. Was this just a few or many? Jesus said it was MANY. From this section of scripture alone, one can see that many lost folks are deceived into thinking they are saved.

I Tim 4:1-5 - Some will depart from the faith and give heed to doctrines of demons. What are these terrible doctrines? That Jesus is not the son of God? No, they were commanding people to abstain from certain types of meat and forbidding certain people from getting married. This passage talks about people being deceived.

Gal 1:6-9 - Anyone who preaches another gospel is to be accursed. How had they changed the gospel? They still believed Jesus was the son of God, that part hadn't changed. They were teaching that an Old Testament commandment (circumcision)was still binding under the New Covenant. Why would anyone knowingly preach something that would lead to their own condemnation?

II Tim 3:13 - people are deceiving and being deceived. Does anyone know when they are truly decieved? If they did, they wouldn't be deceived.

II Thess 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

How can this happen? They don't have a love for the truth.

True worship of God is in truth. That is a MUST! (John 4:23-24)

God's word is truth (Jn 17:17).

Man can worship God in vain (Mark 7:6-8, Matt 15:7-9)

Some men worship God according to their own will (Col 2:23).

Some people seek out what they want to hear because it is pleasing to their ears (II Tim 4:3-4).

I think the scriptures are clear that many people will be deceived into thinking they are saved, when they are actually lost. Satan wouldn't want it any other way.

 

Eliyahu,


In my opinion, if you review the story Jesus told about the Good Samaritan, you will see that there are times when people who may have the correct doctrine are really the deceived ones while those who do not, arent deceived.

What I mean is this, Someone came asking Jesus what he had to do to have eternal life, Jesus said keep the commandments... love your neighbor. Then the question was asked who is my neighbor.

Then Jesus gives this portrayal of a wounded man lying on the side of the road... the leaders with the correct doctrine se the wounded man and pass on by on the other side.

But the Good Samaritan who didnt have correct doctrine, followed the dictates of the Holy Spirit and he stopped to help the poor man.

Jesus said who was the one helping his neighbor and keeping the commandments?

The answer was the man who didnt have the correct doctrine.


Can you see why Jesus told that story of the sheep and the goats? Who was saved? The people with the correct doctrine? NO


It was the ones who helped their neighbor and who had love in their hearts.

Therefore we ought to be careful in assuming that certain people are deceived and going to be lost... People may be following all the light that they have --better than those who have great light and are not living up to it. Sometimes they can be more devoted to God than those who have correct doctrine. Ignorantly serving God the best they know how.

see what I mean??

Claudia

 

What about fake born again believers? What is the objective test for being born again?

 

Interesting question.
I didn't know that one can fake Christianity.
I mean, to be a Christian is to belong to Christ, that is, to be born again is to be known in heaven by name because one is a citizen there.
Christian behavior can be faked, even Christian talk and sounds, but one's status in Christ cannot.
The Lord knows who are His.

 

Some people can fake Christianity. The BTK serial killer went to a Lutheran (ELCA) church in Kansas and even became president of his church's council. The church members were shocked to learn he was the BTK killer. He stood in the courtroom and coldly described how he tortured and killed each of his victims. He then told the courtroom, "Some of you think I'm not a Christian, but I think I'm a Christian" or words to that effect.

 

"Actually my question was equally directed to both the True Believers and the Fake Believers who may be unknowingly misunderstanding about the salvation."

Salvation by gnosis?

 

This is a GOOD question to ask. Everyone ought to know.

In 2 Peter 1:10 says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE for IF ye DO these things, ye shall never fall."

It tells us that, we are responsible to make our calling and election SURE(in other word - assurance) for IF we DO these things, we shall never fall.

If suppose, we know Christ(in our minds, not hearts), but not do these things, and we fall, then our salvation might be doubt. Also, what IF we do not do these things, then we are not God's elect at the end according Matt. 10:22 & Matt. 24:13.

This question is refer with Matt. 7:21-23. Christ saying to us, in that day(Judgment Day), many shall saying to Christ that, they do truly doing works serve for Him. They do know Christ(in their minds, not hearts). Then, Christ shall tell to them, 'Depart from me...' Why? Because they have iniquity. Iniquity means wicked or sin. They doing good works for the Lord, but no repent of sins. Same with Pharisees saying that they do their good works for their Lord. But their heart is far away from Christ, because of without repentance.

Also, we can test people's fruit(Matt. 7:16-20) & (1 John 4:1-3), by their spiritual actions, see if they truly love the Lord with their hearts. Not easy for us to identify them, see if they are truly saved or not. Only God judge them. But, we have to be careful with them, because 1 John 2:19 warns us, that we must watch them out. There are too many hyrocrites out there everywhere.

We all are hyprocite in face of them. We have to be careful with our testimony, and we must carry our fruits (John 15:1-10) before God and people.

Our responsible that we must make our calling and election TO BE SURE, IF WE DO these things, so, we shall never fall.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!