Who destroyed Job's stuff?

The work of Satan as an accuser began in heaven. This has been his work on earth ever since man's fall.

Look at the prophecy of Zechariah. Satan is accusing, and look at Christ resisting the adversary of His people.

"He showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel." Zech. 3:1-3.

The people of God are represented as a criminal on trial. Jesus, their Advocate.


Joshua, as high priest, is seeking a blessing for his people who are under affliction. Satan is standing at his right hand as his adversary to accuse.

He tries to make Gd's followers appear in the worst light He points out their faults and failures hoping Christ will turn away from them.

In the same way, Satan with job, and with God;s true followers in these last will accuse and condemn us..

But God asked "Have you considered my servant_________?"

There is a great controversy going on between Christ and Satan and we are in the middle of it.
We are here to "prove" God's case.

Satan says nobody will serve God unless God is doing things for them..

God says, NOT SO... have you considered My servant _______________???


Then God allows Satan to devastate that person and nearly bring them to nothing... If faithful to God, though going through terrible trials and even wavering, they will prove they love God no matter what happens and "though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him"...

 

Heb:12:1: Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


many people watching the outcome and making their own decisions about whether or not they want to be on the Lord's side.

Every time there were martyrs, many people decided to join the Lord's side of the controversy. New believers sprang up.

 

Well you are right that "God knows" but we don't.

That is WHY we need that "supernatural witness" from OUTSIDE "The Holy Spirit witnesses WITH our spirit that WE ARE the children of God" Rom 8:16.

It is "interaction" it is "a relationship" -- we NEED that real live personal witness from OUTSIDE because we can not simply "GUESS" that we are saved and be "reliable".

In Christ,

Bob

 

But how can you tell if you have that supernatural witness?

 

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

Here's something I wrote earler on Job:-

(NB: "Right-wing" here refers to my characterisation of the Word-of-Faith movement)

 

You might be interested in my Abundant Life Gospel page. I go into the popular teachings on "trials" and the cold reactions to the suffering they bring (while making fortunes for the Christian teaching industry. The whole selling point is how "hard" it is to "accept" and "grow" when "God sends hardships to test us". So then you have tons of books, tapes, TV shows, speaking engagements and almost celebrity appearances in places all teaching "the secret" of having a "peaceful" or victorious Christian life"). The WOF, popular mainstream, evangelical teaching, and even Calvinism and the fundamentalist anti-psychology movement ("Psychoheresy awareness", etc) are all related to this. And naturally, Job figures prominently in the teaching. Here is the section dealing with that:

What was Job really corrected by God for?

People look at God's response to Job, beginning with "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?" and "where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth", and it is universally read as "you have no right to complain about your pain because I am God and you are not". And "Who do you think you are? Don't tell God how to run the universe", suffering people are told from this, just because they are tired of painful situations, and say things out of depair. Thus, to "accept being human" defined as to humbly accept pain with a positive attitude. But Job's main sin was not the "bad attitude" or even his great words of depair; but rather, according to the narrative, that he "justified himself rather than God".(32:2) The counselors will quickly affirm this about their counselees, such as the woman who "did not think of herself as a selfish person". This can be true, as a person deep in suffering will be less likely to be thinking about their own sins. But the thrust of God's response was about "reproving God" (40:2). This was not necessarily the complaints about the pain, but rather, what Job himself actually repented of (42:3,6,7): "I uttered what I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not...I have heard of you by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eyes see you. Wherefore I detest myself, and repent in dust and ashes". It isn't not understanding, and complaining or asking why or trying to understand that is being corrected here; but rather presuming and making general speculations on what causes calamity to fall on a person! This is precisely what the counselors of today are doing; only on a general rather than individual level, and then telling individuals to "accept" it! Job may have said a lot of brash things in depair; but remember, this included the idea of God "denying me justice" in light of his "righteousness"(27:1-4), and that He "left him", also in light of all of his good deeds (ch.29). It was when Job, who already affirmed (with his friends) that God was responsible (1:21, 2:10), then took that point and made some other outrageous conclusions from it, that he was corrected. He and the friends were basically in agreement that pain, above a certain level, was for "sinners" only. The argument was whether he was a sinner to the extent of deserving that. THIS is the assumption that was knowledge "too wonderful for me, which I knew not", and was what all four men were corrected for! The modern teaching that God sends us pain to cleanse us of sin or otherwise "purify" us, is in a subtle way suggesting the same thing, even though most will deny it, when it is viewed from this perspective.
While God did "allow Satan" to inflict the pain, this was a lesson for us; not an illustration of the cause of every Christian's pain today. So the overall message of Job is NOT "being man means you were made for pain, and to not like pain is to try to be God", but rather the contrary, as we see again in the Gospels where the Jews (including the disciples) tended to blame people born with infirmities, which they attributed to some "sin"; and Jesus corrected them. This type of cold judging must hurt God's heart! Perhaps the morale of the book of Job is compassion, as opposed to "tough love"!

 

Eric,

I copied your Job post and edited in some white space in Word so I could follow it...

Nicely done...

I would add that Job was a casualty of war between God and satan and that Job was caught in the middle of a "Point of Honor"...

I think only Asians really understand the concept of "Honor"?

But, anyway, Job was amply compensated for the trouble God allowed him to go through proving God's Point...

SMM

 

I have something to say. First Job loved God. Job trusted God with His whole life irreguardless of Jobs predicaments. That is the way we should be in life today. Second Job did not learn God from the Bible Job just trusted and loved God for Being God. that is another way we should trust God. No matter what happened in Jobs life. Third, What most people don't understand is that God loved Job. God knew that Job loved Him [God], and believe it or not God trusted Job with His [Gods] love and He knew that Job would do what ever it took to be in the favor of God and God knew this. We should all be so lucky as Job. So through all the heartships that Job felt and had to go through, Job stood on the Promise of God that there was something better and that God would provide all Jobs means. God proved Job right and was with Job through all the pain and heartache. I believe at one time while reading Job that maybe Job wanted to give up on God but Jobs heart was in total submission to Gods love and therefore Job went through this ordeal with Gods love and compassion. He gave Job more after the tribulations that Job went through because Job was a faithful servant of God. I pray that I am so lucky as Job. Irreguardless of cersumstances. AMEN

 

To answer your question, no one distroyed Job because Job believed in the promises and stood on the promises of God. Irreguardless of the cercumstances Job still had his life.

 

What is the point of a Romans 8:16 "external infallible" witness if you can't "detect it"??

The whole point is that IT IS heard and felt.

Christ promises it in John 14 in the form of "Peace that passes understanding" and has no duplicate on earth "NOT as the world gives".

In Christ,

Bob

 

When Christ comes within your life, if you truely give to Christ the external heartships and hurt , He will remove them from you. Your inward peace will surpass all understanding. He will give to you that inward peace. Job had that inward peace given directly by God. He had no meadeator to God just his belief that God truely loved him and that was enough for Job. Even when Jobs friends turned against and all his family died, his first thought was to cry out to God and at that God answered him. That kind of peace is so lost today. But when we are in the Word and Christ is in our life, we can have that peace. If you don't think that kind of peace exists, Let me tell you how to get it. Early in the morning [every morning] before the day begins, before everyone in your home is awake, get up, pray to God for understanding of the Word, than read the Word of God [Bible], When you read the Word you get into God. The Word is true to life for it is the blueprint of life. As you read the Word, your spirit comes alive and is exercised within your whole being. Stand on the Word and let the spirit lead you. After you read the Word, pray again for your submission to the Word. Let your life be lead by the Spirit. When you are led by the Spirit you are led by God. Your meadeator {Chirst} is Alive in you. He will not let you down. Your outward circumstances may be bad but the inward heart of God helps you overcome the bad and His promises are real in your life. Praise God, Worship God and Shout to God, sing a new song to God, with your being. Let Him know that your are waiting on His promises, Let Him know that you are there for Him as He is there for you. The true peace of God will be yours. Remember you have a meadeator to God and through that meadeator Jesus God has no other choice but to listen. For our God is true to His Word. AMEN

 

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Trouble is, it doesn't work. It ought to, but it doesn't. At least not for me and many Christians I know

 

God does not answer in your time, He answers in His and you must never give up on God or yourself for that matter. True there are a lot of Christians that have not gotten their answers but giving up is not the way to be. It does work. God works. He will continue to work till you hear Him. Remember it says in the Bible "If God be for you who can stand against you?" Stand on His promises. You will not regret it. as for the T-shirt. Throw it away. God is not a T-shirt, He is real and His promises are real. Just as Job stood on the promises you can stand on them because you have a powerful meadeator [Christ]. You have no way to go except up when you depend on God not on cercumstanses. Gods days are not mans days for a day to God is as a thousand years to man and a thousand years as one day. Read the Word [Bible] He is not slow to answer. Listen. AMEN God loves you.

 

I'm not giving up; the reality I experience is however different qualitatively from that apparently experienced by you and no amount of 'correct theology' (as per my long screed on the previous page) is going to change that.

 

Yeah, read the link I posted.
I grappled with that simplistic pop-evangelical teaching for 20 years, and all the people teaching it are cold and cannot empathize, because they have this simplistic formula: "just give it to God, and get over it". When it doesn't work, then it's "Oh, but it's a lifelong struggle. God's time is not our time, and he makes it long and hard because that's better for us to grow". This is a total letdown, and the"steps to victory" they speak of actually turn out to be the same 'positive thinking' techniques the world uses, only adding God's name. This may sound nice, as well as selling books and tapes for the teachers (making them ever so much richer and further and further removed from the suffering they tell others how to deal with. So they are more like Job's friends than anything else). But in the end, it proves that Christianity is just "another way" instead of THE way. The power of God we receive by faith and in trust is salvation. Popular teaching has turned both the power and "faith/trust" into a philosophy of positive attitudes with some unknown "good" that may or may not come soon or in this lifetime even, as what we are 'trusting' Him for. To Matt, this is yet another sign of the individualistic Calvinized American Christianity you've been discussing elsewhere.

As for Job, he was anything but all serene and peaceful as this teaching says we should be. He did not give up on God (which was the point), but he did give up on the positive attitude he started out with, yet God still looked uponhim as righteous, and scolded his friends, who came with the same judging and accusing many in the modern "abundant life" teaching come with.
Of all the writers today, Philip Yancey is a lot more compassionate and down to earth, in his treatments of Job and suffering.

 

Eric B, for 33 years of my life I have struggled and struggled, when I finally thought I had it all, a home, a car, a husband who loved me,[an alcoholic, I might add who was mean mentally] I gave it all to God and said if this is where you want me than i must stay. Well last month I lost my husband to heart attact, my home leaks very bad, yet I found a lasting peace as my tears flowed. God loves me no matter what. It does not matter if my home leaks or my husband is gone, GOD LOVES ME. And God will provide maybe not in my time but in His. That is al right to for now my life if full. I have 34 grandchildren, 8 children, and 2 greatgrandchildren with one on the way. God has truely blessed me with His peace. Just as He blessed Job, I feel blessed beyond understanding, No my attitude was not some unknown good may or may not come into my life and I don't have the luxuries of life that some people have but I have the greatest gifts of all my children. And yes it was a hard road and to be truthful it still is but with God and my meadeator Jesus, I will stand on the promise of God and the Word.

 

Good point Mary -

Christ said "Peace I leave with you .. NOT as the world gives" in John 14.

In Gal 5 we see that "Love Joy Peace.." these are the fruits of the Holy Spirit - the Fruit promised to ALL who cultivate the Holy Spirit's presence in their lives.

In Phil 4 Paul explains that IF we take EVERYTHING to God in prayer and learn to focus our minds on blessings instead of curses "The PEACE of God will GUARD your heart and mind" he even calls it "PEACE that passes understanding"!

It is a daily "event" that can take place in your life if you let it.

I would argue that "God the Son is eternal" as is God the Father. And as Paul says in Romans 4 "God counts those things that are not as though they are" calling Abraham the FAther of many nations while as yet he had no children.

Christ's role as mediator functioned "as being necessary" for OT saints (see Heb 11) just as it does for NT saints. Not in the sense that God the Father wanted to kill Job for sinning - but in the sense that SIN can not survive the presence of God. Rebellion against God is repulsive to Him - and sin IS rebellion.

Therefore it was the atoning sacrifice of Christ "future" that enabled the "Restored fellowship" that God declares to have taken place with Job "Have you considered my servant Job?!"

But in Job 1 and 2 it is clear that "Satan" is the one taking action against Job and he is the one doubting and challenging God to His face.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Thank you Bob,
you put into words what I could not get across. you know trust goes both ways and I would like to think that even today as we live in this world that we could trust God with everthing. Even though our circumstances say otherwise. That is the kind of peace I have. That did not come about overnight. It took years to nurture this. Thank you again.