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Featured General Reconciliation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Sep 2, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I do not advocate "universal atonement" but I do advocate "general reconciliation." The difference between general and universal is that universal suggests that the reconciliation is applied individually to everybody. I do not think this is what the bible teaches. But Jesus being the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, God reconciling the world (humankind) to Himself, indicates redemption is available to everybody; Jesus having paid the ransom for all. If you read in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21, you see that being reconciled in the general sense, does not indicate you have "received" the reconciliation individually, that is why we have the ministry of reconciliation. Therefore the difference between general reconciliation and individual reconciliation is in who has "received" the reconciliation. And this occurs when God places us individually "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 1:30)

    Here is a summary of Particular Reconciliation and General Reconciliation

    Particular Reconciliation:
    (1) God preselected folks for salvation before creation
    (2) Christ came and died for those folks - limited atonement
    (3) God gives those folks faith in Christ, then accepts their faith and places them in Christ.

    General Reconciliation
    (1) God selected Christ to redeem believers before creation. Therefore those chosen and placed in Christ during their lifetime through belief in the truth were corporately chosen as the target group of His redemption plan before the foundation of the world.
    (2) Christ came and died for humankind in general but not specifically for each individual.
    (3) God chooses folks and places them in Christ after accepting their faith and reckoning it as righteousness.

    The first point of difference centers on the meaning of Ephesians 1:4 which says we (born again believers) were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means being chosen as foreseen individuals. General Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means Christ was chosen to be the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world and anyone subsequently redeemed by the Lamb was corporately chosen because you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to redeem..

    The second point of difference centers on the meaning of 1 John 2:2 which says He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that Jesus is the propitiation not only for elect Jews but also for elect Gentiles. General Reconciliation maintains that Christ is the propitiation not only for believers, but also for everybody else, the whole world. Propitiation means that God’s acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice provides the means of salvation, the mechanism of reconciliation. When God puts a believer spiritually in Christ they “receive” the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice.

    The third point of difference centers on the meaning of Romans 4:5 which says but to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. Particular Reconciliation maintains the “his faith” was supernaturally given to him by God because the unregenerate are spiritually unable to trust in Christ. General Reconciliation maintains “his faith” is the individual’s trust in Christ, because if it were God’s gift of faith, it would not need to be reckoned as righteousness.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said He calls His sheep by name and they follow Him....and He will lose none the Father has given Him.

    That is a specific call to reconciliation, not a general call. They are His sheep before they follow Him. He calls them by name.

    peace to you
     
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  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I believe that this view stems from a rejection of Total Inability or Total Depravity and a downplay of the impacts of the sin of Adam and the fall of man. If man were TOTALLY INCAPABLE of making the first move, then Jesus' offering a means of salvation that they were incapable of obtaining would be a moot point. In a sense everyone already had an offer of salvation ... live a 100% sinless life just like Jesus did and you have no need for a Savior under the Law. That "available salvation" did no person any good because no one was able to do it.

    I suspect you are flirting with Semi-Pelagianism under a thin covering of new terminology (since you reject any sort of Prevenient Grace).
     
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  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Pelagus believed in Christ so does that make you Pelagian too? I do not believe we all sinned in Adam which is utter nonsense. No where in scripture is it ever said we have sinned in Adam nor does it say we inherited Adam's sin This is all Calvinist imagination. In fact most all of Calvinism is imagination.
    MB
     
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me Christ did loose Judas.
    MB
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Calling Jesus a liar? Maybe He just made a mistake? Judas was part of His plan. He did what God brought him into this world to do.

    peace to you
     
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  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Joh_17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
    I never called Jesus a liar that is your suggestion .
    MB
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists love to smear others because they do not love truth.
    If they did they would accept Christ died as a ransom for all.
    If they did they would accept Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all humankind.
     
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    John 12:6
    John records that Judas was a thief from the beginning and bore the bag ie stole $$$$!!$
     
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  10. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus said, “I lay down my life for my sheep”
     
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  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    That is exactly right, everyone given to Christ (transferred from the realm of darkness into His kingdom) becomes "My sheep."
    What some do is construe this to mean exclusively, He only laid down His life for His sheep. But since He laid down His life as a ransom for all, the church made up of His sheep, are a part of that "all." Note 2 Peter 2:1 says Christ "bought" people heading for swift destruction. There the ransom bought all, but all do not receive the reconciliation provided when God credits a person's faith in Christ as righteousness.

    John 10:11 says Jesus lays down His life (as the good shepherd) for "the" sheep, all mankind.
    1) The sheep = all mankind in John 10:11
    2) Of My sheep = all those open and receptive to God's word, they are the fields white for harvest.
    3) My sheep = those after being given to Christ and thus then belong to Him.
     
    #11 Van, Sep 3, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    You know the arguments. You like me have been on here for at least 50 yrs if not 75

    Truly, your heart is hardened to the Gospel
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists love to smear those presenting truth.
     
  14. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Van

    As my pastor buddy from Viginia always says, if theres an error to be made, I am going to err on the side of trying to give God the glory and not steal, rob or take away from His glory
     
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  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why are you constructing faults and implying they are mine? Why not address the topic.
    How are we saved? Does it in any way "depend" on our willingness to be saved? Nope We are saved by God alone, for it is God who either credits our worthless filthy rag faith as righteousness or not. This poppycock about robbing God of His glory is just another smear by Calvinism. The biblical truth is when we in our fallen and corrupt state turn to God and repent, we glorify God.

    Reconciliation is available to everyone.
     
  16. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Van

    The difference is that Calvinists believe that passage in Jonah “salvation is of the Lord”. We really do believe that salvation is a miracle wrought by Gods grace and mercy alone (He saved us)

    There is always room for more on this side. Afterall, I was once where you seem to be
     
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  17. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Neither he nor I are suggesting that man can save himself by living a sinless life (which is what Pelagianism teaches), so your point is a non sequitur "foul ball".
     
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of us died in Adam, as he is the head of the physical born humanity, while Jesus is second Adam and all in Him now made alive again!
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said He calls His sheep by name. That is a specific call of specific people, it is not a general call. When He calls, they follow Him, every single time. They are His sheep before He calls, He calls them by name. They don’t “become” His sheep when they respond to His call.

    No need to insult me and call me names, I know your arguments. I’m just repeating what Jesus said.

    peace to you
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We who are the elect of God in Christ will be given those ears that can hear and respond to his voice!
     
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