Featured 2 Cor. 5:18-19

No One, generally, does. If you don't mind me entering this quest.

There will be examples AustinC can show from your writings.

We'll just be looking at them and say that that is how we saw what was said, etc.

 

Or,
I can understand "world" to mean what doesn't give me contradictions when I look at other Scriptural declarations.

I understand your feelings on the matter, Quantrill.
It wasn't all that long ago that I would have agreed with you.

Here, try this:

Ask yourself the serious question...
" What are the ramifications if all men are reconciled to God?"
I can tell you where my mind goes:

If the world ( all men everywhere ) are reconciled to God, then God is casting most of those who were made His friends, into eternal torment on Judgment Day.
Does that ring true with other Scriptures that deal with believers and unbelievers, and especially with Matthew 25 and Revelation 20?
It doesn't with me.

Therefore, I took a lot of time studying it out and came to the conclusion that, like John 3:16, "world" in 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 cannot mean "every man woman and child who ever lived".
In the case of John 3:16, I clearly see that God does not love the world, even though "world" is the word on the page.
Why?

" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." ( Psalms 5:5 ). <---- Notice that it says the worker of iniquity, not just the iniquity.

" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest:" ( Psalms 11:5-6 ) <---- Does that sound like He loves all men everywhere? Not to me it doesn't.

" For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, [whom] the LORD abhorreth." ( Psalms 10:3 ). <---- Abhorrreth means "hates".

" As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." ( Romans 9:13 ).



So, when I bring other Scriptures to bear on who God loves and who God hates,
I necessarily do not agree with people who take John 3:16 and use it as a proof text telling people that "God loves everyone".
To me, the context of John 3:16 is easy to determine after careful comparison...
The "whosoever believeth".

To me, it's the same with "world" in 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
If all men past, present and future ( believer or not ) are reconciled, then they are no longer His enemies.

The question then remains...

How can God cast those whom He loves and has reconciled to Himself ( making them His friends ), into Hell to suffer eternal torment?
They are His friends.

 

Calvinism is SYNERGISTIC. It requires the unregenerate TO AGREE to hear the gospel.

If a person refuses to hear the gospel they have 0% chance of Salvation. If they agree to hear the gospel then GOD has been granted permission.

Case in point? You don't hear about Calvinist popping out of some tribe in the jungle, never hearing of Jesus Christ talking about TULIP.

If a unregenerate REFUSES to hear the gospel there is ZERO chance of regeneration.

FAITH comes by hearing.

 

So then are you saying he is not misunderstanding how God is reconciling the world unto Himself?

 

" He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." ( Matthew 11:15 ).

 

There is a difference between God reconciling himself to the world and God reconciling the world to himself.

He is doing one not the other and if you don't catch the difference your going to have a mess.

 

What difference would that be?

Please elaborate, utilyan.
I'm interested to know what kind of a mess that that would present.

 

How do the dead hear unless God makes them alive?
You gotta troll harder than this, uti.

 

I believe in The Full (Comparatively by God's people and the Superintendence of The Holy Spirit) Preservation of The Inspiration.

The little quirks and idiosyncracies that are of little or no measure may be dismissed, to give the present version of the KJV, for example, a designation of, "Inspired", as it sits.

God has no use for anyone who says otherwise.

Yes, it is a revised version of the 1611 and needs to be revised again.

A Bible version is to be Compared to the body of texts, which have been preserved and other volumes, such as its predecessors.

Whatever was written on Moses' tablets has no less Authority and Inspiration than, "Do not murder", does, in English.

Inspiration doesn't always follow in the same set of tracks.

The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible are based on its Integrity, which is Perfect.

We have a MORE SURE WORD of PROPHECY (than the Prophets, themselves).

God Has Magnified His Word above His Name because The Bible Testifies of Him.

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6

You wont see me denying The Word of God by referencing versions based, heavily, on The false Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, or manuscripts which disagree with each other thousands of times.

 

On and on the same Calvinists post the same screed, attacking the poster and ignoring the post. Next, the Calvinist will say to be "gracious" rather than "intolerant" of false teachers.

 

I was a bit surprised you would admit Quantrill's claim is bogus. But I am not surprised you would ridicule God's sovereign choice as emotionally based. Should I falsely claim you deny God's sovereignty? Naw, that would put me in your sandbox.

 

Thanks for citing the passages that support God is reconciling the world one sinner at a time, when God alone puts an individual into the body of Christ.

 

Nope

 

Well...since I don't ridicule God's Sovereign election or call it emotionally based, you can actually quote what I said.

"You, on the other hand, teach human faith, which causes God to either declare it righteous or unrighteous, depending on God's feelings about you on that day.

Both are merit-based means of salvation, apart from grace."

I do not retract my statement that you teach human faith causing God to declare the human faith as either righteous or unrighteous. This has been your claim since you joined the BB.

 

In the Watergate days, your post would be termed a non-denial denial.

Folks, pay no attention to Calvinists who deny God's sovereignty in Election for Salvation.

 

2 Corinthians 5:19, ". . . that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, . . ." is the current on going work God is doing through His Son by means of us who are already reconciled.

 

I admire that.
Believe it or not, I have the same convictions.

To me, you're assuming that I have approached God's word with a "systematic theology" framework, and have attempted to fit Scripture to that framework.
I assure you that this is the furthest thing from the truth.

I arrived gradually at this understanding, and I often question it...
Only to be redirected to where I'm currently at and to have it even more solidified.

Been there and done that more times than I can count, Quantrill.

Neither do I...

But over the course of my studies, certain meanings became apparent to me.
Also know that I will not impose such rigid rules upon you...
To me, you're free to understand it as you wish, and we are both free to disagree.

I won't think any ill of you for not going alone with me.