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A Doctrine of Translation

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Oct 22, 2020.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    An important point about Bible translation is that it comes under God's providence, and is not miraculous. In other words, translation is a human activity guided by the Holy Spirit, and thus providential, but not miraculous. Miracles all through the Bible take place instantaneously. In the same way, the inspiration of Scripture was a miraculous activity. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1:21). This clearly refers to miraculous events, with the word "spake" being in the aorist, therefore looking at the whole event, which took place in past time. (If it were a continuing process, it would have been in the imperfect tense.)

    Again, 2 Tim. 3:16 very obviously refers to miraculous events. When "God breathes" ("inspiration," θεοπνευστος), that was an event, not a process. Events called miracles ("miracle," "sign," "wonder") in the Bible are invariably one time events. Study it out, like I did and you will see. Translation, on the other hand, is a process. As a process, it cannot be miraculous, but must be providential. (If you don't understand God's providence, please don't simply spout off, but ask questions, okay?) Therefore, a translation into any language cannot be inerrant. Inerrancy is only guaranteed by a miracle. Humans are never inerrant unless God intervenes with a miracle. (How many times have I said something stupid in a sermon, Japanese or English, yet God still worked??:) )

    Here is a really great quote from influential 19th century French theologian Louis Gaussen:

    "The divine word which the Bible reveals to us, passes through four successive forms before reaching us in a translation. First, it was from all eternity in the mind of God. Next, it was passed by Him into the mind of man. In the third place, under the operation of the Holy Ghost, and by a mysterious process, it passed from the prophets' thoughts, into the types and symbols of an articulate language; it took shape in words. Finally, after having undergone this first translation, alike important and inexplicable, men have reproduced and counter-clhlked it, by a new translation, in passing it from one human language into another human language. Of these four operations, the three first are divine; the fourth alone is human and fallible."
    Louis Gaussen, Divine Inspiration of the Bible, 1841, trans. by David Scott, reprint (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1971), 154-155.
     
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  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Now, with what method should we translate?

    I have here before laid out a Biblical doctrine of translation based on how the Bible portrays translation. There are many passages in which one language is translated into another, giving us examples of how to translate holy writ: "Immanuel" means "God with us," and so forth. There is one OT passage (the writing on the wall), which is actually interpreted, rather than translated per se, but the interpretation is based on the literal meaning: Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin ("numbered, numbered, weighed, divisions")

    Here is Daniel's interpretation from Dan. 5:
    25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
    26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
    27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
    28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

    There are two NT passages which give us literal translations of phrases "Damsel, arise," (Mark 5:41, Luke 8:54; Mark is a little bit freer), and Eli Eli lama Sabachthani (in Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34) is translated from the Aramaic literally.
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Here is the complete list of translations in the text of the NT (which I just found in my notes), indicating the importance of literal translation.

    1. "Emmanuel" means "God with us" (Matt. 1:23).
    2. "Golgotha" means "a place of a skull" (Matt. 27:33, Mark 15:22, John 19:17).
    3. “Boanerges” (“sons of thunder”) (Mark 3:17).
    4. "Corban" means "a gift" (Mark 7:11).
    5. "Ephphatha" means "be opened" (Mark 7:34).
    6. "Abba" means "father" (Mark 14:36, Rom. 8:15, Gal. 4:6).
    7. "Rabbi" (Rabboni) means "Master" (John 1:38, 20:16) or “teacher.” While the original meaning of the word was “great one,” it came to mean “master” by common usage.
    8. "The Messias" means "the Christ" ("anointed one"; John 1:41, 4:25).
    9. "Cephas" means "a stone." (John 1:42).
    10. "Siloam," translated as "sent" (John 9:7), means "outflow" in the original Hebrew (Word Studies in the New Testament, by Marvin R. Vincent, vol. 3, p. 183). John was no doubt going by the common usage of the day here rather than paraphrasing.
    11. "Aceldama" means "the field of blood" (Acts 1:19).
    12. "Barnabas" means "the son of consolation" (Acts 4:36).
    13. "Tabitha" in Aramaic means "Dorcas" in Greek (Acts 9:36), and they both mean "gazelle" in English.
    14. "Elymas" means "the sorcerer." (Acts 13:8).
    15. "Melchisedec" means "king of righteousness" (Heb. 7:1-2).
    16. "Salem" means "peace" (Heb. 7:1-2).
    17. "Abaddon" ("destruction") in Hebrew means "Appolyon" ("destroyer") in Greek (Rev. 9:11).
     
    #3 John of Japan, Oct 22, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So when some here demand to have a perfect translation, that would mean that the Spirit Himself guided every decision made same way He oversaw every word placed and written down in the originals?
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would we not shrive to be as literal as possible, without sacricing the accuracy then?
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    A perfect translation would require a series of tens of thousands of miracles. Not going to happen.
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yes, if you mean "strive."
     
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How would you frame that truth in light of translations such as the RSV, NWT or NEB? Then the textual issues, like John 1:18?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Only the Originals had that miracle, as Holy Spirit was "hands on" in the process....
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I did mean that! I sit true that Idioms are some of the toughest things to bring over into a translation, at times cannot be really word for word?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No perfect translation.....
     
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  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I should have said "Translations should be guided by the Holy Spirit." Oftentimes they are not. Another place in Gaussen's book makes the point that anyone with the right language skills can translate the Bible, even if they are not even saved. But I fully believe that the greatest blessing will come from a Bible translated by a born-again, spiritual, Spirit led man of God.

    The RSV was a liberal translation, but essentially literal. The problems arose with that version when they did liberal renderings, such as "young woman" instead of "virgin" for the Hebrew word almah.

    The NWT was done by lost JW's, and thus is doctrinally biased. In the Japanese version they translated πιστευω ("I believe," as you know) with 信仰を働かせる ("make faith to work"). I told one of their "Kingdom Halls" that, and their translator wrote me and unsuccessfully argued for their rendering.

    The NEB is a much worse liberal translation than the RSV. I think someone could get saved through it, but would also be mislead in their spiritual life.
     
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  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Idioms can almost never be word for word. Only occasionally can one can cross the language barrier and be understood, as with "kick against the goads."
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God is immutable, so God's word is immutable because He Is. Translations of God's immutanle written word can be true and accurate but never immutable.
     
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If the Rsv had just translated young woman as Virgin, might now have needed the Esv or Nrsv!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His Original books were inerrant, but no translation is!
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    About the textual issues, my thinking is that the translator should choose his or her text, and then stick to it. I believe issues of the text and issues of translation to be separate.
     
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  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Had a great discussion yesterday in one of my classes about the preservation of the Word of God. I made the point (one student didn't understand) that inspiration was given by a miracle, and preservation is by God's providence. A miracle is an instantaneous act, while providence is a process. I believe that the preservation of Scripture should be approached from the viewpoint of providence. No one can point in church history, including the history of the KJV and its translation, to any miracles, though God's providence is plain in the development of the English Scriptures. (Read about Gutenberg. Read about the development of the TR. Read a biography of Wycliffe. Read the story of the translators of the KJV.)

    Here is a statement of my doctrine of preservation: The sovereign God, who created all things, also preserves all things; the entire universe and everything in it are held together only by His power.
    1. “Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshipeth thee” (Neh. 9:6).
    2. “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or power: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist” (Col. 1:16-17).
    3. One of God's names is “Preserver” (2 Sam 22:3, Job 7:20).

    Here are the objects of God's preservation:
    1. The saints—“For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off” (Ps. 37:28). “He that keepeth thee will not slumber” (Ps. 121:3b). He will preserve:
      1. their lives (Gen. 45:5, Deut. 6:24, Ps. 30:3, 33:19-20)
      2. them from trouble and evil (1 Chron. 4:10, Ps. 32:7, 121:7, John 17:15, 2 Thess. 3:3)
      3. them from evil men (Ps. 31:20, 41:2, 97:10, 140:1, 141:9)
      4. their path (Gen. 28:15-22, Ex. 23:20, Josh. 24:17, 2 Sam. 8:6, Ps. 91:10, 121:8, Prov. 2:8)
      5. the fatherless and widows and foreigners (Jer. 49:11, Ps. 146:9)
      6. their spirit, soul and body for Heaven--eternal security (John 17:11-12, 1 Thess. 5:23, 2 Tim. 1:12, 1 Peter 1:5, Jude 1)
      7. them from sin, according to their prayers (1 Sam. 25:39, Ps. 19:13, 141:3, Jude 24)
      8. them from Satan (John 17:15)
      9. them from temptation (1 Cor. 10:13, Rev. 3:10)
    2. Israel (Josh. 24:17, Jer. 31:10)
    3. Jerusalem (Is. 31:5)
    4. The animal kingdom (Ps. 36:6, Matt. 10:29)
    5. His ordained governments (2 Chron. 6:16, Col. 1:16-17, Rom. 13:1)
    6. His own secrets (Matt. 13:35, Rom. 16:25)
    7. The heavens and the earth (2 Peter 3:7)
    8. His own Word, the Bible (Ps. 12:6-7, etc.)
     
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  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Here is an excellent quote from a theologian about providence and preservation.

    "By preservation we mean that God, by a continuous agency, maintains in existence all the things which He has made, together with all their properties and powers. In preservation we have, therefore, the first manifestation of God’s sovereign rule. Note what this definition implies: it implies that preservation is to be distinguished from the act of creation, for that can only be preserved which is already in existence; that the objective creation is not self-existent and self-sustaining; and that preservation is not merely a refraining from destroying that which has been created."[1]
    [1] Henry Thiessen, Lectures on Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publ. Co., 1949), 174.

    So, creation (including the inspiration of Scripture) is a miracle, but providence (including the preservation of Scripture) is a result of God's superintending sovereignty.
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well, in Psalms 12:6.

    In verse 7, "them" is the Hebrew "him" תִּשְׁמְרֵ֑ם. That is, persons, "every one of them."
     
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