Does Creationism Corrupt the Gospel?

Brace yourself, Mark Kluge.
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Are you sitting down?
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Do you have a cold rag handy for shock?
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Barry and I agree with you...

 

ROFL

 

I also used to be a YEC but am now an "Old Earther." I think we have it much harder than the YEC because we are persecuted more often than them. I actually had 2 people tell my husband that we shouldn't have children because I hold an old earth view. One actually said I wasn't a christian (well to be exact...she said I didn't believe the bible...same thing.) My husband is more of a YECist so we do differ in belief but I don't think this should stop us from having kids! Anyway I have seen both side get VERY vicious towards one another (more so on the YEC side) and I wish we all come agree to disagree. There is only one thing that separates us from Christ and that is not believing and trusting in him.

 

Let me also voice my agreement with the idea that we need to remember what we agree on. You all know, I suppose, I am not shy about pressing my viewpoint here on these boards and vigorously debating in what I hope is considered mostly to be a fair manner. I don't bring up these issues in Church or in Sunday School classes myself, and try to be very very mild when these issues do come up (which is rare). It seems to me that a board such as this is the appropriate place to have such vigorous debate, instead.

I also consider this an excellent training ground in another sense - in learning to press the argument in ways that are not contrary to our relationship as brothers and sisters in Christ. We all know examples where there are some who have seemingly "lost it" as they posted . . . can I learn to avoid that and still press a point? Its a work in progress.

 

moeowo, Just for the record, I would like to apologize for the attitude of some creationists. Just for the record as well, I have learned that the most abuse seems to come from the most ignorant of the subjects involved. The creation and evolution scientists I have worked with, almost without exception, tend to be more humble and friendly the more they know and the more experience they have had.

 

Just to let you know...I'm a creationist but an old earth creationist (like Dr. Hugh Ross) I DO NOT believe in human evolution but I do believe it took a long time to create the earth. Thank you for what you wrote. Unforunately there are some on both sides that think both are equally evil and make this an issue of salvation (Ken Ham and his group is one of them.) But as I wrote there is only one thing that can separate us from Christ and this subject is not it.

 

I agree with those who have said that the insistence on YECism as a tenet of the Gospel can be - not always but can be - a massive stumbling block to the average intelligent enquirer, and can be unnecessarily divisive. I gave the example on the Religion of Evolution thread that literalism actually caused someone to lose his faith because he discovered that rabbits do not chew cud, contrary to Lev 11:6. So, corrupt, no, hinder, yes.

My own faith journey has been the opposite to Helen and Barry's. I started of as a YECer, indeed at my Pentecostal Church then there was this guy called David Rosevear who had written a book called Creation Science, which I found pretty convincing. But the more I looked at the evidence ( both theologically and to my limited ability scientifically) and the more I prayed about it, the more convinced I became that the Genesis creation accounts (yes, plural; the two accounts are contradictory in order) were allegorical rather than literal eg: all of us falling in first Adam rather than just one individual. So I take the view that you can take the Bible literally at all points or you can take it seriously at all points, but you cannot do both (eg Lev 11:6).

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Matt, you and I seem to have come down the same road on the subject. Thanks for posting

 

Thus proving the fallacy of the title of this thread. INSTEAD of arguing (or even attempting to argue) that trusting God's Word regarding the creation "ACCOUNT" corrupts God's Gospel - the REAL argument is that trust the word of God will contradict the vain philosophy of MAN's evolutionary doctrines. It is a "stumbling block to humanist doctrines" - "The average intelligent inquirere that has already chosen NOT to believe God in Gen 1-3".

Granted - that was a given at the start.

But CAN you do the MUCH MORE DIFFICULT feat of SHOWING that faith in God's Word DESTROYS the tenants of the BIBLE-centered Gospel?

So far, no.

In Christ,

Bob

 

On the stumbling block point, have a look at this [link removed by administrator] to another Christian discussion board; read in particular Ken and Karl's commments on the 'stumbling block' point; this illustrates the dangers of YECism.

Yours in Christ

Matt

[ May 07, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Administrator ]

 

Without getting in late on the main discussion, I would like to pose the question:

How is tarring YEC with "flat-earthers" any different than trying to link all evolutionist with Hoyle's Panspermia?

Such comparisons are inaccurate and counterproductive and reveal a bias, whether conscience or unconscience...

 

As a Christian, EVERYTHING you do should be
done through GOD and not on your own. I feel that
this is where Creationists have it all over and
above evolutionists------who answer only among
themselves...

 

No offense, but your view point is bias. You've demonstrated in several threads that you aren't very clear about the tenets of evolution. This isn't bad, but how can you then extrapolate their positions?

 

Bias or not this ideal is very Christian and
God inspired.

And if evolution is nothing about all species
having ancestory in common, then please forgive
my ignorance.

 

VERY GOOD ANSWER, HELEN!

Might I add a few points from a person who did not believe in the young Earth theory until a little over a year ago.

Jesus tells us that if we are ashamed of the Him, He will be ashamed of us before the Father (I didn't look up the exact quote, but you get the drift.) My point is simply that the Bible's literalness is something that I, for one am not ashamed about and if it gets in the way of a person becoming a Christian, I am assuming that the Holy Spirit will intervene in that situation. We keep forgetting that we are dealing with a "supernatural" God who is capable of anything--including speaking the universe into existence or picking up a handful of dust and turning it into a man.

If I were to believe in evolution, then I would have to discard my beliefs about Genesis 1 through 11 which would make me "ashamed" of what God wrote down through the pen of men. The point is, if God says it, why should we be ashamed of it. Obviously, if God thought it would be a problem he would have rewritten Genesis. I am not going to second guess my Creator.

Finally, if I believe in evolution or long-earth theory, then I must admit mistakes in the Word of God, because death did not enter this world until sin did. If I were to assume an old earth with dinos roaming and turning into fossils, etc. then I must admit the Word of God is flawed, and therefore I am ashamed of his Word.

That's my point of view!

 

Not meaning to be condescending, but you have a Catch-22 with your post. If Paul was correct in saying that "THROUGH ONE MAN's ACT of sin - sin entered the world and ALL came under the domain of death"--then how can you have epics of time where creatures evolved and died BEFORE sin entered the world. Either we have to believe the Bible or say that it is full of mistakes. I for one am not open to the last option. Sorry!

 

If I were to believe in evolution, then I would have to discard my beliefs about Genesis 1 through 11 which would make me "ashamed" of what God wrote down through the pen of men. The point is, if God says it, why should we be ashamed of it. Obviously, if God thought it would be a problem he would have rewritten Genesis. I am not going to second guess my Creator.


I never heard it put that way before, Phillip. Thank you. Barry and I both read your post here and we both agree you are thinking the right way in terms of Genesis and what it means and how God could have changed it if it were going to get in the way of faith. Good thoughts! Thank you again.

 

Often we get a particular "take" on Scripture that later collides with reality.

We often forget that the interpretation we put on God's word is not necessarily God's word.

When Scripture and reality appear to contradict each other, it is because we have misunderstood one or both of them.

One is just as likely to misunderstand scripture as science.